Chris Tsangarides is a record producer, musician, songwriter & engineer who needs no introduction. His work across the last 30 years has included more landmark moments than almost any other career in the rock world, including being nominated for a Grammy award in 1991, appearing in the award winning documentary “The Story Of Anvil”, and producing countless hit albums by metal, thrash, rock, indie,, new wave, roots and even pop legends.
From Ozzy Osbourne to Tragically Hip, Tygers of Pan Tang to Thin Lizzy, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, Girlschool and err… Sam Fox – Tsangas has built a body of work which is not only impressive, but also hugely influential.
Quick to laugh, quietly confident and self-assured, and a genuinely lovely guy, we spoke to the man known as “The Dark Lord” in depth about his entire career, his thoughts on the music business, how he produces an album and plans for his forthcoming autobiography.
The Rockpit: The role of the producer seems largely underrated by the average music fan. You can always dredge up discographies of a band or band member’s work, but it’s a bit harder to find a definitive career retrospective for a producer. The Rockpit would like to redress that balance and focus on our favourite, most influential producers – thanks for being the first in this series, Chris. Congratulations on a stellar career – you’ve produced far too many ground-breaking and influential albums to list them all, engineered & remixed a bunch of others, been nominated for a Grammy and so much more. What’s your view of the recording industry as it stands in 2010?
Chris: Well first off thanks very much for the kind words, it’s always good that the work is appreciated….. The recording industry is pretty much the same as it ever was, companies investing in an artiste and trying to sell vast quantities of product, the main differences now in 2010 are that the larger major labels are run just like any huge business whereby they have shareholders who want to see a profit. Back in the late 60’s early 70’s there were a lot more “music men” in the industry like Chris Blackwell at Island records who actually liked the artistes they signed and they were in it for the long haul, developing their careers etc. These days if a band gets signed to a major and they don’t have instant success that’s them done! The reason being that most major labels are part of a bigger corporation and therefore need to show an instant profit.
Chris: To me though the music business must still have a vestige of artistic credibility for it to nurture the more esoteric side of music, unfortunately this does not translate into the instant huge sales that they require to satisfy the shareholders so it seems that all the big money is ploughed into “commercial” music… Its Ironic that the big bands of the 70’s are still the Big bands of 2010. It’ll be interesting to see what’s going to happen in the next 10 to 20 years as bands like AC/DC, Metallica etc reach the end of their touring life… Will there be any other Bands to replace them in their Iconic status?
The Rockpit: Can you fill us in on the process you go through when producing an album, from an artist’s first demos of a bunch of songs through to the actual finished album.
Chris: I normally start with the demos, and then go into pre-production and make whatever changes to the basic song structure. When we make it into the studio the first step is the drum sound, then complete the backing tracks, that’s the drums and bass and into the guitar, keys, vocals and any other weird and wonderful overdubs and finally the mix.
Chris: Straight into the charts at number one and then I woke up! [laughs]
The Rockpit: What are your thoughts on the changes in recording technology over the past 20 years? Protools and the like seemingly make it a lot easier for an artist to record an album sitting in their bedroom, without the need for an ultra-expensive studio.
Chris: Very true, there are so many devices that people can use now to make recordings and it’s all good but it’s like anyone waking up one day and thinking to themselves I’ll go and get a Fender strat, a marshall amp and then expecting to be as good as Jimi Hendrix within a few days of practise. There have been some amazing records made at home like you’ve described but at least 90% in my opinion are awful. It takes time for anyone to get fully up to speed with any endeavour they undertake… That’s why recording studios, musicians and producers exist…..
The Rockpit: How much creative input do you generally have into an album? If you’re working with 8 or 10 bands a year, that seems like it would be a huge drain on your creative well.
Chris: Generally speaking I have full creative input when I’m making a record and yes sometimes you do feel a bit lacking in ideas but that’s remedied by taking time out to regroup to enable you to get back on track. I think that one of the most important aspects of the Producers role is to listen to what’s being said by the various band members when they are sitting around in the control room while I’m doing my thing as often one idea will lead to something else and so on. It is often the case where you set off on one road but by the old quirk of fate you go down another which normally is better than the original concept, happy accidents if you like.
The Rockpit: How does a young band get Chris Tsangarides to produce their album?
Chris: By paying me vast sums of cash…[Laughs]! Not really, I basically have to like the music of any artiste before I can work on it… So if I’m approached by a new act I check it out to see if it is suitable for my style of production and we take it from there… You would be really surprised at some of the projects I end up working with…
The Rockpit: Do you get a chance to listen to much new music, or is most of your listening time reserved for the bands you’re working with?
Chris: I tend to listen to new stuff in the car and on the radio, but long gone are the days of me buying an album and sitting back to just simply enjoy it.
The Rockpit: What makes you say yes or no to producing a band?
Chris: I have to like the music and the people involved…
The Rockpit: You started in 1975 at Morgan Studios assisting on Judas Priest’s “Sad Wings Of Destiny” album – that’s not a bad start for anyone! What are your memories of that first big assignment?
Chris: Too right! I was lucky to be in that situation of working at a great studio and getting the opportunity to take over the engineering side of that album. Having said that, you still have to be able to deliver the goods. Lucky for me they liked what I was doing. I remember recording KK’s solo on ‘Victim of Changes’, that was the first time I had ever recorded a guitar solo… officially.
The Rockpit: You were only about 17 when you started at Morgan, all bright eyed and bushy tailed and “made your first cup of tea”. What led you to a career in music at such a young age?
Chris: I had a great musical education at school, via the Brass band there, I played piano and trumpet, not exactly the most metal of instruments, but it did give me a great classical education. I had designs of being a musician and going to the Royal Academy of music but I felt I wasn’t up to it and my heart lay in Rock and Roll. So upon leaving school my friend Dave Harris was working as a Tape-op at Morgan and suggested I should get a job there. And the rest as they say is…….
The Rockpit: Do you hear music with a fan’s or a producer’s ears, generally? Can you just listen to an album for fun, or are you dissecting it and thinking “I would’ve done this or that differently”?
Chris: It used to be more from the fans perspective but I can’t help myself, I analyse records when I hear them. If I like something though I can listen as a fan…
the Rockpit: From there you worked with some really diverse bands, including Japan, Colliseum, Dave Greenslade, Joan Armatrading, etc. Would you recommend this as the best way for a producer/engineer to learn their trade?
Chris: I’ve found that working with a broad range of music widens your knowledge in all aspects of what you do when making a record. You can bring things to the table that you wouldn’t be able to bring if you did just one type of music…. So Yes I would recommend this approach to someone starting out.
The Rockpit: What do you think you bring to an album as a producer?
Chris: People tell me that they hear my character in most of my records; I think that you should not be aware of what the producer has done when you listen. The production should be transparent so you enjoy the artiste’s work… So I see my role as a catalyst bringing all the elements together, the sound the arrangements and the most important part… Having the best time ever whilst making the album!
The Rockpit: As producer, once in the studio does that make you the boss, or is the dynamic more that the band is the client so you have to pamper them a little bit?
Chris: Everyone loves to be pampered don’t they? But it’s like, you don’t buy a dog and then bark yourself!
The Rockpit: Another regular collaborator/client was Thin Lizzy & Phil Lynott’s solo work. From reading bios and articles from people who were on the scene in those days, there seems a real feeling that Phil could’ve done so much more had he cleaned himself up a bit. Was working with him difficult because of his drug use?
Chris: Not really… Phil had the constitution of an Ox. He could function when lesser mortals would be out for the count… The abuse did effect his lungs though and there were a couple of times when he couldn’t breath cos of his asthma brought on by the abuse, When that happened I would snitch on him to his management and they would pull him up on it. He knew I was snitching out of concern and love for his well being, but Phil was Phil and unfortunately it caught up with him in the worst possible way… I still really miss him……..
The Rockpit: What are your thoughts of the New Wave Of British Heavy Metal era, and the shock waves it created around the world? Between 1980 and 1985 you worked with Tygers of Pan Tang, Girl, Hollywood Tease, Anvil, Y & T, Girlschool, Ozzy Osbourne, Spider, Rock Goddess, Sweet Savage, Mamas Boys and more.
Chris: I didn’t get why anyone called it NWOBHM, to me Rock/Metal was still around. I guess we had all the Hoo-Haa with the punk scene and basically I think the punks eventually learnt to play their instruments and swapped their Fender amps for Marshall stacks. The NWOBHM bands were faster and more aggressive in their music than say the older metal bands like Sabbath and Priest etc… But call it what you will many great bands came from that scene and it certainly spread the Gospel of HM worldwide…
The Rockpit: You produced Ozzy’s “Blizzard Of Ozz”, which was an absolutely pivotal album for him, being his first solo album after leaving Black Sabbath and having a bit of a breakdown. How were those sessions?
Chris: They were pretty fraught at times. Ozzy was in a very strange place… He had been thrown out of his comfort zone with Sabbath and found himself as the band leader with everything riding on him. They were very under rehearsed when the album started. He didn’t know I was producing it until I turned up at the studio. I didn’t know I was doing it until the day before. He was expecting Roy Thomas Baker. So we were thrown in at the deep end. I was the same age as Randy and the pair of us were surrounded by older musicians who probably because of their lack of rehearsal were quick to blame everything else for their limitations. I remember calling David Arden {Sharon’s brother and Jet records boss} and telling him that the older band members were giving me a hard time. He came down to the studio and I guess put them straight on a few facts and before we knew it we had the songs recorded.
Chris: Unfortunately for me I went down with an ear infection and couldn’t continue the album so Max who was the house engineer took over. His gain I suppose. I had recorded a live album for Gary Moore at the Marquee in London a few months later and Randy was at the show. I gave him and Sharon a lift in my car to the after show party and he leaned over from the back seat and told me that he thought the end result of the Blizzard album sucked and that it could have turned out so much better. That goes to show irrespective of the sound or production the power of great songs.
The Rockpit: It was also Randy Rhodes’ introduction to the big time – he’d already recorded a couple of low budget albums with Quiet Riot, but how did he take to the studio in 1980?
Chris: I think he was quite bemused by it all, we hit it off very well by both being 23/24 years old and having an affinity with the guitar. He loved the Gary Moore LP “Back on the Streets” that I had done and I remember he had this huge Marshall stack in white covering but he wasn’t too happy with the sound coming out of it. I asked him what he preferred and that turned out to be a Peavey combo! I recall him doing the solo for Crazy Train and I was blown away, he then said he wanted to double track it, I thought he was joking but that’s what he did note for note and then he trebled it. He had it all written. He was a true talent and a gentleman.
The Rockpit: In the mid eighties you broke the mould a little, venturing away from hard rock & metal bands to do a fair bit of work with alt-goth Lords Of The New Church & Killing Joke, as well as more mainstream compilations like the Weird Science movie soundtrack. Do you approach different musical styles differently as a producer?
Chris: No not really, the job is fundamentally the same – to bring out the best of the band and song.
The Rockpit: Do you have to LIKE a style of music, a band – or indeed the songs themselves – when you are a producing a record?
Chris: I do, I don’t know about other people but I have to like it to fulfil myself. Having said that I could make a record with songs I didn’t like but I guess it would turn out crap.
The Rockpit: Have you ever produced an album where you just loathed the music, the songs and/or the people in the band? How do you deal with that professionally and personally?
Chris: I have once! And it was a horrific time, but I just got on with it and they liked it, but I didn’t… in the words of Rolf Harris “Can you tell who it is yet?” [Laughs]
The Rockpit: I’m sure creative tensions can wear thin when holed up in a studio recording an album with a lot riding on it, band members, record company execs and yourself all pulling in different directions. We saw an example of that in The Story Of Anvil. Have you ever come to blows with any of the artists you’ve worked with?
Chris: No… but I would have liked to have lamped a few though!!
The Rockpit: The late eighties were interesting for you: You went from working on Black Sabbath’s “Eternal Idol” album in ‘87 to King Diamond’s “Conspiracy” in ’89 by way of Samantha Fox in ’88. How was that?
Chris: All in a day’s work! Like I say each gig has its pluses and Sam Fox had a couple of big pluses all of her own… [Laughs]
The Rockpit: Was it a conscious decision to branch out into pop music production from a career perspective or to investigate the difference in technology and styles, or was it just a matter of the money being too good to refuse?
Chris: It’s always good to diversify and in Sam’s case not only was I the producer but I had to create the music too so from that perspective it was good to be able to do that too.
The Rockpit: Having “Produced by Chris Tsangarides” on their album must give an artist a certain amount of instant credibility – how do you discern between a band who has something worthwhile to say and one who just wants a shortcut to fame and fortune?
Chris: You get to know who the posers’ are pretty damn sharpish and they get kicked to the curb straight away.
The Rockpit: Do some bands think that having a big name producer mean they can get away with bring half-arsed material into the studio, and the producer will somehow whip it into shape?
Chris: That has happened a few times but they then get sent back to the practise room to write some more tunes…
The Rockpit: 1990 saw you work with artists as diverse as Tigertailz, Bruce Dickinson, Concrete Blonde, and of course Judas Priest again (on the album “Painkiller” which scored Chris a Grammy nomination). How did you and the band feel when you finally listened back to the finished product for the first time?
Chris: I think we were all a bit shell shocked really, the album was so intense fast and heavy it didn’t really sink in as to how good it was til later on.
The Rockpit: I believe Dickinson is an intimidating man, very sharp and not afraid to speak his mind. Does a personality like that make it easier to cut to the chase in the studio and get the work done, or is it more likely to promote clashes?
Chris: It’s down to one’s self…. you have to be as confident as the artiste your working with otherwise nothing you say will be taken seriously, I learnt that early on in my career…especially after my Ozzy experience where the older fraternity in the band tried to inflict their will on the record. You have to remember that I had only produced 3 albums (which were hit records thankfully) when I was put on his record so you learn from it and gain strength and wisdom so it doesn’t happen again. Artistes are looking for leadership and someone to steer the ship so they can get on with doing great performances…
The Rockpit: Did the 1991 Grammy nomination change anything for you personally or professionally?
Chris: Sure did! I could charge more! [Laughs]
The Rockpit: Also in ’91 you worked on Ian Gillan’s “Toolbox” album – my favourite of his solo records. Do you ever feel nervous or intimidated working with bonafide rock legends?
Chris: The way I see it is that Ian or whoever has asked me to make a record, therefore by definition they must think the same of you as you do of them. They have to have the respect for your work otherwise they wouldn’t ask you to work with them so no, I’m not intimidated; we’re all just people after all.
The Rockpit: In the 90’s music really split into a lot of different sub-genres, and it felt at the time like we were looked down on for liking metal AND grunge AND glam AND indie music, yet you were there genre hopping constantly, and were responsible for a lot of truly great music from such a diverse spectrum of styles, from Concrete Blonde to Exodus, Helloween to (ahem) Sam Fox. What’s your favourite style of music to work on?
Chris: I like the more eclectic styles as its more challenging to make records that don’t follow any particular protocols. A rock record has to sound a certain way for example as does a classical recording, but the more experimental the style the more fun it is to come up with cool things to do. I like that challenge.
The Rockpit: Gary Moore, Johnette Napolitano, Yngwie Malmsteen – shining talents who all have a reputation for being difficult to work with, yet with each one you’ve gone back for more. Are those reputations deserved, or are you just very easy to get along with?
Chris: I guess you can substitute the word “Difficult” for exacting. They know what it’s all about and I suppose that they don’t suffer fools gladly! Again it’s to do with the confidence that you as the producer has in being able to motivate these artistes… That’s not to say that sometimes “the children do throw their toys out of the pram.” [Laughs again]
The Rockpit: Into the noughties you continued your work with Priest, Gary Moore, Tigertailz, Anvil as well as working with rootsier Canadian band The Tragically Hip and Biomechanical. Do you feel a loyalty to a band once you’ve had success with them, so that you try and make time if they want to work together again, or is it really just first come first serve?
Chris: I do feel loyal to my artistes and will always find the time to do it all again…
The Rockpit: Inversely, if you’ve had some success with a band, do you feel put out if they choose not to work with you again?
Chris: I do especially when you’ve finished the record and had a ball and everyone goes their separate ways with “see you on the next one” still ringing in your ears and then they use someone else. I can understand if it was a flop but when you’ve had a hit together… Well… it normally is because a larger carrot was dangled in front of them…..
The Rockpit: How much does record company politics play in a band and a producer hooking up?
Chris: It’s normally the band that chooses who they want to work with and then it’s down to the A&R guy to make it happen. Some blinkered A&R guys are lazy and just look in the charts to see who the flavour of the month is and inflict that particular person on the artiste so that if it’s a flop their comeback is “Well I did get the hottest producer for them so it’s not my fault it flopped.” Thus providing job security for the A&R guy… [Laughs]
The Rockpit: In 2006 you built your own home/studio in Kent called Ecology Room Studio. Where did the name come from?
Chris: My studio is built within a former scout camp and the room that became the main recording room used to be “The Ecology room” where they would learn about the local ecology… as the sign was already up I couldn’t be arsed to move it and thought it was a cool name so there you have it… [Laughs]
The Rockpit: 2007 saw you work with LunarMile, featuring the Tony Iommi’s daughter & Ian Hill’s son. I haven’t had the chance to hear this one yet – how did it come out?
Chris: It came out great but the band folded last year I’m afraid to say…
Did you have Tony & Ian – both of whom you’ve worked with in the past – hovering around the studio putting their 2 pence worth in? If so, I hope that wasn’t the heavy metal equivalent of “soccer Dads” getting into fights with umpires and other Dads at their kid’s games!
‘Fraid not… they weren’t at the sessions…
The past few years has seen you work on new records from some young bands like The Haze, Glyder, Deal, Kings Call, Mordecai, Arcane Roots & Black Spiders as well as the latest albums from long time rockers Mountain, Strawbs, Bitches Sin and Anvil. Do you find it easier to deal with the young guns or the old hands?
Generally speaking you have to do more explaining with the newer acts as it’s all fairly new to them where as the older bands have done it before so they know what to expect.
Your appearance in The Story Of Anvil (filmed 2006, released 2009) was very interesting – were you on board the project from first hearing the “This s Thirteen” demos, then get told about the movie, or did the movie sway your decision to produce the album?
It all kinda happened at once, Lips had found my email and wrote to me and within a week or so Sacha did the same… The movie had no bearing on me doing the record, we all realised though that it could be the best advert in the world or we might all look like god knows what… [Laughs]
What were your thoughts when you saw the movie for the first time?
I saw it for the first time at the Sundance film festival and I was gobsmacked! There were so many personal memories for me and to see myself onscreen making “Metal on Metal” from 81 was surreal to say the least as I had never seen that footage before….
What was apparent was that it really told their story and it’s everyone’s story no matter what your dreams are, it leaves you inspired to keep pursuing your goals and that you really need the love and support of your friends and family to keep you going.
How are the new Anvil demos sounding?
Frikin Awesome!
Do you think they can finally capitalise on all this publicity and actually sell some records this time round?
I think so… more people than ever now know this band so let’s hope we make a record that people will dig enough to buy it…
Do you think any band can survive solely on record sales nowadays, in a world where downloading and burning of albums is so rife?
It depends how big your star is… Certainly nowadays Bands make money from touring and merch sales. If they’re signed to a smaller label and play metal then it would be a big No. If the band puts it out on their own and sells it at gigs then they could make $15,000 on just 1000 sales… Most bands are in this position…
After the debacle that was Metallica’s not-unjust but poorly assembled – and ultimately failed – assault on Napster, do you see a solution to the downloading crisis, or is this just the inevitable 2010 equivalent of the 80’s “Home taping is killing music” campaign.
There’s nothing wrong with downloading as long as everyone involved in making the music gets their dues… Music has got to be made and it costs the musicians money to make their music… If everyone expects to download it for free then how do musicians stay professional? We will end up with a load of substandard semi-pro work so what will be the point of that? It would dilute the content of the music drastically…
How close do you get to the artists you produce? For instance, would you have considered Phil Lynott, Lips, Gary Moore et al as friends, or do you prefer to keep things professional in the studio?
There are some Artistes that become personal friends and others that you are friendly with but have no relationship other than the professional one…. It’s just like anyone in any walk of life you make friends with people you like…As I work in the music industry some of my friends end up being “Rockstars” but to me they are just my buddies…
Further to that note, no doubt you have some great stories of “rockstar excess” or Spinal Tapisms from artists you’ve produced. Any you can share with us (naming names optional!)?
You’ll have to wait for my Memoirs for all that…Coming soon at a quality bookstore near you…. [Laughs]
Ahhh – so you have plans for a salacious tell-all autobiography?
As it happens I’m in the process of writing my Autobiography tentatively titled “Rock & Roll Soup.”
How do you feel your approach to production has changed over the past 35 years?
As with any career you have to embrace all the new technologies and make them work to your advantage… Production to me is a state of mind and there is a way that I work that is unique to me… I approach every project with certain expectations and make adjustments along the way to fit in with the particular project…
Judging by your Myspace page (www.myspace.com/christsangarides) you were completely booked up for the past few years. You seem to have a prolific workload – when do you ever chill out?
That’s the story of my life… I would much rather be busy then chilling out but sometimes when you do stop and have some time off you realise that there is a big world outside the studio door,,, I guess I love hanging out with my wife and kids…
What are the recordings you’ve worked on which you look back on as your finest work?
I reckon it has to be the ones that everyone else tells me are “Groundbreaking, inspirational or classic albums.” And how they inspired a whole new generation of music to come about. Anvil’s “Metal on Metal” was very inspirational to the Big Four, Metallica, Slayer, Megadeath and Anthrax. Thin Lizzy’s “Thunder & Lightning” was the benchmark to a host of European bands. Priest’s “Painkiller” inspired a whole new breed of bands like Pantera. Concrete Blondes’ “Bloodletting” was loved by Nirvana. The Tragically Hip’s “Fully Completely” record speaks volumes about Canadian folklore to the extent that it achieved Diamond status and so it continues… Thank F**K! [Laughs]
How do you think your legacy will be perceived in 20 years?
That’s a tricky one to answer, but, I would love to think that people would embrace my ideals as far as music production and engineering are concerned and look back at my work with fondness and hopefully find some inspiration for their music.
Do you enjoy doing media, or is it a bit of a chore?
Its part and parcel of the job I have. I’m always flattered that anyone wants to hear me banging on about this and that… Since being a part of the Anvil movie people now know what I look like. I still haven’t got used to being at a gig and have random people come up to talk to me about this band or that record. I have to say though it’s great because I can now hear firsthand what the people who buy my records really think. I feel more connected to them now and I think that’s great. I met a guy after a gig in Canada who told me that he had managed to get so many girls in the sack by playing them the Tragically Hip record and he wanted to thank me for that! I must say that was the last thing going through my mind when we were recording it… [Laughs]
Have you ever lied in an interview, out of boredom or whatever?
Not intentionally… “embellished” certain things perhaps… [Laughs]
Would you like to now? [Laughs all round]
Sure…
Is there anything that you wish an interviewer had asked about but no-one ever has?
Can’t think of anything off the top of my head [Shrugs]
Which new bands do you recommend right now?
I really like what Them Crooked Vultures are doing now, it sounds like some serious jamming going on…
Do you have any artists you would still love to work with?
Sure do… Metallica, Muse, Slayer, Them Crooked Vultures, ZZ Top, Heaven and Hell. I could go on forever, there are so many awesome bands out there…
Your career has been stellar and your name is whispered in hallowed halls as one of the great legendary producers of all time – have you had any regrets along the way?
Wow, that’s a very nice thing to say… thank you so much high praise indeed! One of my main regrets has been that I was away from home for so long recording all over the world when my kids were small and I missed many Birthdays etc. My wife Jane and all my brood always understood why I wasn’t around so much but they supported me every step of the way.
Can you describe the feeling you get when you listen back to a track and you KNOW you’ve nailed it – it’s as good as it can get?
It’s nearly better than sex! It really is the best feeling – I guess you would have to be there.
Basically when you make a record you also spend months with a group of people and you’re in the studio all day. You can’t but feel a great bond between you, when it’s over there is always this feeling of elation at finishing the record but also this great sense of loss. It’s like a mini divorce especially if you have had a blast.
What’s next for Chris Tsangarides?
A Cup of Yorkshire tea! Oh, finishing my autobiography and new recordings with, Bitches Sin, Dangerous Breed, Tokyo Blade, Killing Machine, Cheap Evil, Spit Like This, Anvil.
Is there anything else you’d like to say to our readers?
Look out for my new Label “The Vortex”. I’ll be putting out some weird and wonderful music. And just to keep supporting their favourite bands. Oh and thanks for listening to my ramblings! [Laughs again]
Lastly, the question we ask of all our interviewees – what is the meaning of life?
42 of course!
Thank you again for taking the time to talk to The Rockpit, best of luck for the future and please do stay in touch!
Cheers mate…
