UK Grindcore pioneers Napalm Death are back with their brand new album “Throes of Joy in the Jaws of Defeatism”, out September 18 via Century Media Records / Sony Music Australia. The follow-up to 2015’s acclaimed “Apex Predator – Easy Meat” sees the band do what they do best, tackling society and the human condition in a world divided set against the backdrop of a brutal form of music that Napalm Death have not relinquished one bit in their almost 40 years as a band. We talk to vocalist Barney Greenway ahead of the album release to discuss the finer points of the writing process for Napalm Death both on the lyrical front and the musical side as well as get into his love of language and how it’s utilised in the band.
Andrew: So how’s it going, how’s everything on your end?
Barney: Alright, not too bad, can’t complain.
Andrew: Obviously it’s a crazy time at the moment so how has it been affecting you guys at the moment?
Barney: I mean obviously things have been put on ice, all the gigs have been fucked. We’ve got this new album to promote and I’ve basically had about 7 weeks of interviews up to this point because you may as well be productive while the more physical side is not happening. So yeah mate I’ve kind of kept myelf busy and it’s all been pretty positive, so personally I can’t complain.
Andrew: I know a lot of bands have been hesitant to push out albums during this time, was there any hesitation on your end for this new album?
Barney: No absolutely not. You know, every band has the right to do as they feel appropriate of course so I’m not being critical when I say this but at the same time, I don’t quite understand that. Because this is a time when people are actively seeking out music, more so it seems than for a long time so it does puzzle me a little bit to why people would want to not do that because you can put your album out and it’s not as if people are going to forget it, it’s still going to be there once you get back to more physical activities ie; gigging. So there was never any intention to do that, not at all.
Andrew: It’s also been a few years since the last album so I guess you would be pretty relieved to have this finally come out I suppose.
Barney: Yeah and like I say, it was always going to come out but was I relieved? I guess I always have a certain sense of relief when an album comes out but that goes for any album. It is a long goal process and you kind of know that it’s going to be a long road ahead and there is always a thing in the back of your mind, ‘hopefully this album is as good as the last one’ in terms of the people receiving it. But I was never too worried about it, it’s just dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s I suppose, to use a cliche!
Andrew: [laughs] How does this album differ to everything you’ve done before? Was there anything in particular that you were trying to achieve at all?
Barney: I just think it’s a couple of steps upward to be honest Andrew, I think you can see the reference points from “Apex” in this album but I think where it differs is the songwriting has just become a bit tighter as you might expect after 16 albums. It’s arguably a little bit more well mixed in that way so it’s not like reinventing the wheel from a Napalm perspective but I think it’s a little bit tighter in the songwriting respects, I think we’ve explored a little bit more, we’re not afraid to do that and it’s certainly not to the detriment to the traditional fast and furious side of Napalm so as far as I’m concerned it’s all good.
Andrew: Yeah I heard the album the other day and it’s obviously trademark Napalm Death but there’s obviously a couple of other things that you’ve put in there that stamps it as part of the modern metal world. I know in the press release you mention that the lyric direction for this album I guess you called “the other” which I guess is a sort of thing with today’s world, the division of society and the political climate we live in but you guys have always really done that haven’t you?
Barney: Sure but I mean when we write albums it’s always specific to the times that we’re in. So I’m always going to try and address things that are happening because the problem is sometimes, if you make a very generic concept for your album so kind of a timeless concept if you will – that’s all well and good and I’m sure the ideas will be great but you gotta relate to the times that people are living in if you want those ideas chewed over. So the subjects that we’re talking about on this album are very much a result of the last 4 or 5 years, they’re very specific for this time period and that’s really important because again that’s relatable to the world that people live in. So it’s something that has had an effect on people’s perspective, if you want those ideas to resonate and for people to either at the very least know that they are there, then you have to do that unless you just want to make general points and not have them kind of dealt with from there which I think is probably not a good idea in my opinion.
Andrew: What about the process itself as far as writing down lyrics and coming up with ideas, I mean has that changed at all over the years or do you have a formula that you stick by?
Barney: Well obviously the lyrical subjects are always going to change as we’ve just discussed but yeah the actual formula itself you’re kind of hitting the nail on the head, I mean I’ve written the same way since 1989. The only thing that’s kind of changed is the small points like using micro cassette recorders to record rehearsals anymore [laughs], now you can quite easily take in a laptop into rehearsal. But anyway Napalm is like a very off the bat spontaneous thing so Shane [Embury, bass] actually went in and, yes he had the roots of his tracks but he went in and bashed around the stuff with Danny [Herrera, drums] when this actual recording sessions started, he just went in flat out and laid the tracks down without any real rehearsals beforehand because he wanted to kind of refine them based upon the two of them using each other as sounding boards. So it is different in some ways but not in others. Also in terms of my lyric writing, mate I still do the same thing. I lock the door, close the blinds, pull the phone out of the wall and I just sit here and I can’t have any distractions around me and I have to be focused on either the piece of paper or the work document on my laptop. I really have to do that, I need that level of concentration.
Andrew: So you don’t do a lot of writing when you are on the road and on tour and stuff like that?
Barney: No not for me. The only aspects of writing that are possible for me when I’m doing that is when ideas come to mind, like titles or just themes or words that I can use that are relatable to the things that are going through my mind and then on my phone or on my laptop I’ve always got a document that literally might just be 2 or 3 words that could be used as key words or they just could be bodies of lyrics and so I just write them down. But in terms of actual crafting of whole sets of lyrics and stuff, I need my own space to do that to achieve the results that I want.
Andrew: Do you also find as time goes on with more albums as the years go on that you are finding more ideas than ever before or that it’s getting more difficult to come up with new and fresh ideas?
Barney: On the lyrical side of things do you mean?
Andrew: Yeah and also in general for Napalm Death.
Barney: No because musically that’s kind of Shane’s department really, certainly in relation to this album. Here’s the thing, Shane as I know him has such a wide palette of ideas, I mean you can kind of sense that in the fact that he’s in about a hundred different bands. But he’s so fertile in that respect that and obviously I’m speaking for him in this situation but as far as I understand things he doesn’t struggle with that. Yes he will refine things and he will craft them until he gets them right but I don’t think he’s short of ideas and again with the lyrics, well we are reactive and responsive to the world around us so that therefore kind of gives you an endless stream of things to reference. So I don’t have any worries, I’ve never had any concerns on that front.
Andrew: It’s interesting as you go through the back catalogue of Napalm Death, the album titles have always been very interesting and obviously this one is no different. “Throes of Joy in the Jaws of Defeatism” – what was the inspiration behind that particular phrase and title?
Barney: Well first of all in terms of the stylistics of it, I mean I’m a language nerd, I really am. I know that sounds a bit ridiculous but I am, I love the art of the expression, the written word. I’ve always really liked it so the title itself “Throes of Joy in the Jaws of Defeatism”, it’s an oxymoron. It’s a positive and a negative both active within a sentence so it has very nerdy kind of rules to some extent! So yeah I’ll always use word association, try to use obviously a lot of metaphor, some pathos and humor which is difficult, the humor part is quite difficult when you’re dealing with such serious stuff. Truly great lyricists in my opinion like Jello Biafra and Steve Ignorant from Crass, those kind of people just completely nailed it as far as I’m concerned so I try to achieve something like that at least.
But as for the actual meaning of the title it’s actually a multi-layered thing, from the title itself to the actual more heavily embodied meaning of the title but the actual words themselves are in the title. So the Jaws Of Deafitism I’m kind of referring to a metaphorical man trap if you like, a steel trap. So if you can imagine being caught in one of those, well of course you’re going to be probably extremely injured, extremely distressed and trying to get out of the thing. I kind of looked at it a little differently, I would imagine being caught in a trap and basically saying that trap being an embodiment of negativity and me kind of being, ‘No I’m not staying here, I’m getting out of this and you ain’t going to stop me from getting out’. So I don’t know if that makes any sense and then that feeds into the actual meaning of the title, the treatment of the other, of marginalized people. The fact that this is used now by governments to even make themselves look good in the sort of majority of the public relation and all that stuff.
Andrew: Just on that topic of the love of language and all that, do you think if you weren’t playing music that you would be a writer of sorts?
Barney: I have written over the years, I have done various things but possibly is what I would say. I mean going back to my early years on this earth, I could read a newspaper from back to front at like 5-6 years old and have an understanding of what’s going on. So I definitely had an understanding of language at that point, couldn’t necessarily craft it obviously using all the techniques we’ve talked about but I definitely had an understanding of it. In English at school, English language and English literature I did really well at, I was really fascinated by it so yeah I did really love it. I’ve got certain aspirations I suppose if Napalm was ever to not be around anymore in my universe, I’m kind of an amateur Soviet historian so I’ve always been fascinated with that whole time period, the psychology of it, all the different aspects to it. So there’s a possibility that if I pursued that as a historian or a lecturer or something like that, then there would be writing involved so I’d very much probably enjoy that.
Andrew: Well it’s always a pleasure to speak to you and as I said, the new album is trademark Napalm Death and as someone who has been a fan for a long time it’s good to see you guys still going after all these years.
Barney: No worries mate, anytime.
Andrew: Really appreciate your time and look forward to hopefully at some point when everything gets back to normal, see you in Australia in the future.
Barney: Yeah mate we’ll be back. Oz and New Zealand have always been great for us, very receptive. Its not an easy place to go to.
Andrew: I know!
Barney: The logistics involved and the fact that we’ve been around for so long and still people will be happy to see us over there, I mean you can’t take that for granted.
