Jeff Pilson and George Lynch are of course former Dokken bandmates and have played together in various other ventures over the years most recently and notably in ‘T&N’ and ‘The End Machine’ – the latter have a new album in the can and ready to go. Jeff has so much more going on though – as well as his long term role with Foreigner he’s also a member of Black Swan who put out one of the best albums of 2020 and he’s just released a covers record with Lynch entitled ‘Heavy Hitters’. With all that’s going on we had to catch up…
Jeff: Hi Mark, hope you’re well.
Mark: I am, I hope you’re staying safe. Let’s start with the obvious question – everyone does covers records but where did the concept come from for this one?
Jeff: Well how it came about was that George had a project called ‘Kill All Control’ and he was re-releasing it through Cleopatra records and they asked him if he could do a bonus track and they actually suggested the track they wanted him to do. They wanted him to do ‘Somebody to Love’ by Lewis Capaldi which is very much a Pop tune. So George called me up and told me all about it and asked if I would be involved with it and I said “Absolutely.” So we put the track together and did all the stuff and we got Will Martin to sing it, who was fabulous. And Cleopatra loved it so much they offered us a deal to do a whole record of it. And we couldn’t turn them down, it was the pandemic, the perfect time, and we knew it would be a lot of fun – so there you go!
Mark: Sounds like a good excuse to make some music! So who chose the songs Jeff, there’s a few n there before I heard the track listing that I thought would be great and some others that I really wasn’t sure about? But I must admit with maybe one exception when I heard the songs even if I wasn’t a fan of the original I loved the treatment.
Jeff: Well thank you. The choice of sings was between George and I and Brian Tichy – and we just kinda bounced ideas back and forth and came up with those. (laughs) I must admit we had a list of about 40 at one time! But we settled on those that made the album and we’re very happy with them.
Mark: My burning question is – who’s the Motown fan?
Jeff: Well I’m a huge Motown fan, but it turns out Will Martin is a huge Motown fan too.
Mark: I would have loved an album of just Motown if Cleopatra are listening. When I was a kid I was a huge fans of Motown and Soul and I found it really easy to transition into Rock music from there.
Jeff: Well sure, a lot of the great Rock Musicians or the seminal ones that’s where they come from ‘R and B’ or Motown, all that stuff. But I just love it, so it was great that we all seemed to agree on the selections and everyone wanted to contribute to make them really interesting.
Mark: Of course those that love their controversy honed in on the fact that Don (Dokken) made a bit of a passing comment on the album but the way I read it, it didn’t even sound like he’d listened to it yet?
Jeff: Well he hadn’t so… You know listen to be fair his main comment was “Some of those songs are vanilla” and you know who wouldn’t agree with him? I would even a free with him. But that was kinda the point to take those vanilla songs and make them cool, so I feel that we did that. You know the rest of his comments “I don’t know what those guys are doing…” That’s just Don – Don being Don.
Mark: Exactly and I think people we’re trying to make something out of nothing with that. On the subject of Don, I’m not sure he’s written much since about 2012, certainly not put out an album: and I think for all us fans it would be nice to see a final swan song in the studio from the original band? Even more so because we’ve gone through this horrible year. I’d love there to be a final big Dokken album just to underline everything.
Jeff: I actually do too. I actually think that would be a great thing. And, you know, we’ve all talked about in and I know we all are thinking about it and its there somewhere in our minds. The problem is Don has his Dokken right now and they’re doing a record right now so, you know, who knows when but the fact is we do communicate and everything is fine so, the ground is laid if the opportunity ever arises.
Mark: That’s beautifully put Jeff, very diplomatic and I think that’s what everyone wants to hear that the door is ajar, but it’s not completely out of bounds.
Jeff: It’s an impractical thought at the moment, but that doesn’t mean it’s impossible.
Mark: And you’re all still with us so let’s hope we can look forward to that in the future. I know you have so much going on at the moment – but as we haven’t spoken for a while talking to you is a question of where do we start as you’ve had a number of things on the go since last we talked – everything from ‘The End Machine’. ‘T&N’, ‘Black Swan’ as well as live dates with Dokken and Foreigner.
Jeff: There’s been a lot.
Mark: I loved what Foreigner are doing for their crew with the online store. I thought that was a wonderful idea.
Jeff: And that’s why I get confused with the interviews because I’m doing a bunch of interviews for that ad a bunch for ‘Heavy Hitters’!
Mark: We’ll just try and cover it all!
Jeff: (laughs) Anyway yes it’s not their fault that this happened and it’s not like they can jump in with another band and find more work, the entire industry collapsed underneath them. Not only are they family to us but they all have families and they’re wonderful high class professionals that through no fault of their own this is happening. So we thought it was really important that we do something and really try to raise awareness to help the crew and see if we can put some money in their pockets. And so far we’ve had a really good response and a lot of people are helping out and I couldn’t be happier for that.
Mark: As a producer; and you hear a lot of different stories about work as we all deal with our localized exposures to the pandemic; have you found that the work is still there during the pandemic? I know you have a few things on the go but I must admit that ‘Black Swan’ was one of the projects I really loved last year and which took me a bit by surprise.
Jeff: Well that’s cool, I was very, very excited by that record myself and actually this week I was supposed to start writing again with Reb (Beech) but the pandemic in L.A. is one of the worst spots in the world right now so it just didn’t see like a safe time. But hopefully in the next few months things will calm down and he can come out and we can start writing a second record. I mean I’ve already got a second ‘End Machine’ record in the can, mixed and mastered. That’s coming out I April, that George and I, and Robert and Steve did during the pandemic and I’m really excited about that. I think a lot of people are really going to take notice on that record!
Mark: I loved the debut and if the next is better I was already taking notice! (laughs) It’s interesting with those two projects – The End Machine and Black Swan – some of the Frontiers projects work OK, some really click, but there’s something about those two that really take some beating. Why is that do you think that ‘Black Swan’ seems to have that instant chemistry?
Jeff: Because you’ve got amazing singer who I think isn’t always give the credit he’s due. I mean people have always loved Robin, and I’ve never heard a bad thing about Robin but I just don’t think that people realise the depth that he has both as a writer and as a singer. He’s capable of singing really heavy music with a powerful voice but it’s also incredibly melodic. He has an incredible melodic sense and great lyrics ideas – he’s my favorite story-teller, he tells such great talks. So you take that, then you take a world class guitar player who really is one of the most talented guitar players you’ll ever want to meet, who is also a tremendous writer and just an instinctively great musician in Reb Beech. You put those two together and right there you’re gonna have something great.
Mark: And you might have added a little something too?
Jeff: I have great chemistry with both of them so the writing process I think really worked well, sadly Matt the drummer came in at the end so he didn’t really get to be part of the beginning process but he sure came in and kicked ass on the drums! But this record I hope we get to use hi also on background vocals because he’s such a strong singer. So we haven’t even tapped all of the potential that’s I there yet! But all I know is when you take that much talent, a real focused direction and I think the focus became apparent to all of us as soon as the music started developing. Then you add no egos, everyone is really cool, everyone listens and everyone is thinking of the overall end product. When you put all of that together you’re bound to come up with something great and I think we did.
Mark: You certainly did. I think the surprise was not due to the people in the band but the fact that people get a little jaded with some projects, but that had a real passion and some absolutely wonderful songs.
Jeff: Thank you.
Mark: You did obviously have shows lined up for last year like a lot of people did, I was talking to Glenn and Doug a while ago from The Dead Daisies who I think are going to be playing with Foreigner in Europe in 2021 – I know those dates are still on the table at the moment but we didn’t expect Europe to see those second and third waves – what do you see happening for live music – we’re not out of the woods yet are we?
Jeff: Well I think it’s gonna be a few months, I mean realistically getting the vaccine out there is gonna tale a few months, though probably not for you guys! You guys, New Zealand – you’re gonna get it quick, but the United States is a very complicate (laughs) country (laughing). That’s a nice way of putting it!
Mark: (laughs)
Jeff: Let’s just say ‘we didn’t adhere as well as we should have’ and of course the attempt to prevent the disease got a bit sidelined because certain political aspects avoided dealing with it for a long time. SO it was problematic over here, so I think it’s gonna take several months before we start to get close to normal. But my sense is that by (Northern) summer we will definitely start to see some shows, if not a lot, I mean I hope we see a lot. But I think by the fall I think it will start to be getting back to a much more closer to normal situation. Not sure exactly what that will be, it might be a little different, I mean there’s bound to be some rough edges as we re-launch everything. But that’s my sense of it, I’d be pretty shocked if music wasn’t in pretty much full swing by fall. But I’m still hoping that those dates we have in the spring still can come off, and some of them are at socially distanced venues, which is great and hopefully that’s harbinger of other venues to come.
Mark: I’m crossing the fingers that the first socially distanced Festival Foreigner are headlining in March still goes ahead so that we can see that responsibly put together events can be safe even if we have to live with the pandemic a little longer.
Jeff: For sure.
Mark: But it is all different around the globe ad I think we have to play it safe, we have concerts here but it’s all very insular but great for local bands who are pulling much bigger crowds than they might normally have expected.
Jeff: I can totally see that. And that’s a good sign. You did it much closer to right than we did so let’s just hope the vaccine makes a huge difference and that people get vaccinated and stay safe in the meantime until we get the world back to normal.
Mark: Well said. Let’s step away from the present day for a minute and take it all the way back. Where did it all start for you? When did you know that music would be such a huge part of your life?
Jeff: I would say by the age of 14 I knew for sure that music was going to be my occupation. I’d been playing for a couple of years but what got me really serious about playing was when I was 13 we moved from a really nice suburban town in the State of Wisconsin to a very small logging town in the State of Washington, these are two different States in the U.S. And the logging town, I gotta say as a kid from suburbia I thought was very backward at the time. I’d never been around people who were into hunting and fishing, so I felt very displaced. I was one of those ‘not adjusting’ teenagers at that point, and so I retreated to my bedroom and picked up my bass and started learning everything I could. So by the time I was 14 I was so deeply dedicated to playing that I knew that was going to have to be my living.
Mark: And from then there was no stopping you!
Jeff: (laughs)
Mark: Getting back to the present day I have a couple of favorites on ‘Heavy Hitters’ – what are yours?
Jeff: Well I know my favorite is the Rufus track ‘You Got the Love’ partly because I’ve always loved that song but I didn’t really like Rufus’ arrangement so we actually changed that quite a bit. Bu ten we also came up with this great riff underneath the chorus and George and I got to be really funky and mean on that song which was really cool, and then Mat came in and just sang the shot out of it! (laughs)
Mark: He did (laughs) I’d have loved to have heard you do a really heavy version of ‘Ain’t Nobody’ too, I reckon you would have scorched that too!
Jeff: Yeah, you’re right.
Mark: People I’m talking to are digging the Duran Duran song too, which is a great song anyway.
Jeff: Yeah, it is a wonderful song, and we didn’t do that much to it. We made it a little bit heavier but I just always loved the melody on that song and George has always loved that song too and he’s not particularly a Duran Duran guy. And if I’m not mistaken it was his idea to do that song.
Mark: I’m certainly not a Duran Duran song, but fair dues, it’s a great song. I am though, a big Prince fan and I loved what you did with ‘Kiss’.
Jeff: Great! Yeah we rocked that one out! We gave that one a little ‘Rock and ZZ Top’ treatment which I thought was pretty cool! (laughs)
Mark: (laughs) It did work well. And going into 2021 on an up, your calendar ahead must be starting to look suspiciously full?
Jeff: It is yes, with Foreigner stating the end of March, and the somewhere during 2021 I need to write and record a ‘Black Swan’ record. Then in a couple of weeks were going to do two videos for the next ‘End Machine’ record and like I say that comes out in April and I’ll be doing a lot of press for that so hopefully I’ll get to talk to you again.
Mark: Love to, I thought the first record was great. I’d love to see you tour down here again to, I think the only time you’ve been so far though has been with Foreigner?
Jeff: Yeah, that’s right. I’ve been over a couple of times with them.
Mark: Let’s hope we’ll be on the itinerary for the next Foreigner tour too. We’re only a short hop from Japan after all.
Jeff: You are. I will say that we are talking with people in Japan about bringing ‘The End Machine’ over, we’d love to do it, I don’t know when or how but if that ever happened and there was the demand to do it we’d love to come. I personally love Australia, I think I could actually live there quite easily, I just felt so at home there those times that I was there that I’d love to go back. I have a very dear fried there too whose family I love to see so I hope we can come someday, that would be lovely.
Mark: Indeed it would. It’s horrible to see what’s going on in the world today and of course we’re all going through the pandemic in our own ways, but one thing that pulls us all through is music and it’s great to see so many great records coming out. We’ve been asking everyone over the last year now to name one album that you can suggest might be worth diving into during lockdown, something that might inspire or comfort people, or simply just a great piece of music. What record do you suggest we should all give a spin?
Jeff: You know the record that I just listened to the other day that I hadn’t listened to the whole record in a long time. I’ve got a 5.1 mix of it so I listen to it on my surround sound and it’s the album ‘Fragile’ by ‘Yes’. I just… I mean I was a humungous Yes fan as a kid and Chris Squire was my bass player so maybe I’m a little biased, but boy that record still sounds great considering it will be 50 years old next year (laughs).
Mark: And remarkably by complete coincidence I just picked up that record on the weekend at a thrift store. I shall have to give it a spin!
Jeff: It will be worth it!
Mark: I’ll let you know! (Laughs) We’ll play something from the ‘Heavy Hitters’ record and a track from Black Swan on the next radio show and podcast. One of the things that makes those albums well worth a listen is the production – you made them sound great.
Jeff: My left show could produce those guys! (laughs)
Mark: (laughs)
Jeff: With Black Swan the thing is we have a really solid working chemistry and it’s just amazing as those guys are just really good friends too, so it’s just a really good band for me and a really great situation. As is ‘The End Machine’. I was Robin’s best man at his wedding so we are close, and he’s doing well too. He’s nice and busy and I think he’s finished or nearly finished his solo record and that should be out this year, and I know he’s anxious to start writing another ‘Black Swan’ record as well. I can’t wait.
Mark: That’s great to hear. Thank you so much for your time Jeff, stay safe.
Jeff: My pleasure Mark, you’re a real joy to deal with.
Mark: And I can’t wait for the next chapter for ‘The End Machine’.
Jeff: Well I’m sure you’ll be hearing it pretty soon.
Mark: Take care, stay safe.
Jeff: You too Mark, you be good.
HEAVY HITTERS is out NOW!
