Five years ago now Joel Hoekstra released the first Joel Hoekstra 13 record ‘Dying to Live’. At the time he’d been in Whitesnake just a year, replacing Doug Aldrich for a year after a 7 year stint with Night Ranger. 2021 sees the release of ‘Running Games’ with the same line-up as the first – it’s a record three years in the making and delayed by heavy schedules and injuries along the way. It’s a great record. One of the best you’ll hear this year. We had to talk!
Joel: Hello
Mark: Hi Joel how are you?
Joel: It’s early here and late for you I now but holding up (laughs)!
Mark: I’ll get straight to the point! What a great album!
Joel: Oh thank you so much. I appreciate it man, it’s very early in terms of getting any kind of feedback, so it’s great to hear anything positive at this point. Its sill at that stage of uncertainty where I’m not sure what the reception is gonna be like.
Mark: I was reading through my review of the first record, which is hard to believe was five years ago.
Joel: Yeah crazy, huh? Time files.
Mark: At the time I remember being blown away, I think I expected a great guitar record, but there were some wonderful songs on there. The best thing about the new album I think, and I still play the first, is that there’s a maturity to it that was just hinted at on that first record, for example the lyrics which I love on this release.
Joel: Oh cool, thank you so much.
Mark: I guess the obvious question is was the record planned for this year or aided or delayed due to the pandemic?
Joel: I was kinda just working on it without a business deal in place so it was just like, OK I’ll finish this album and then see if I can get a deal done for it. So there was no deadline because I’ve been so busy and so had everyone else, so it sort of lived in this permanent lad of “Yes someday that will get done.” So once this covid business kicked in that kind of cleared everyone’s schedules a bit to finally finish it up. I guess it kinda put it on the fast track a little to finally get it across the finish line. So I’m thrilled to have it out and finally seeing the light of day.
Mark: Does it feel a little unusual in the current circumstances promoting an album that you know will probably not get played live anytime soon?
Joel: No I do these albums mainly for artistic expression, and to have a band scene for a moment where I’m… not that I don’t enjoy being part of the democratic process, but it’s nice to be the person who is calling the shots and be the boss for a minute. So there you go. But it’s not really put out to make money, anyone who thinks that is nuts!
Mark: The one problem I have with the album is that each time I’ve played it I’m playing it all the way through, I’m not skipping anything which is pretty unusual. It’s a very solid record.
Joel: Oh cool thanks. Thanks man, that’s so good to hear.
Mark: It’s got a great running order too and for anyone who’s heard the singles all I can say is that the rest is just as good! It’s also pretty strange to be thinking in January that I’m already listening tone of my albums of the year!
Joel: Wow, that’s amazing.
Mark: Yeah I’m not sure I’ve ever said that to anyone in January before! (laughs)
Joel: (laughing) That’s amazing to hear. Thank you, because like I said this is still the early feedback stages for me, I’ve seen one review, that’s it. You know by the time you’re done making a record and you’re so into the minutia of it and the detail of it, it’s like looking at a painting from an inch away – you have no idea what you’re looking at anymore. And I’m sure it’s that way for many people, I’m not special in that regard, but you put them out no knowing if they’re great or the worst album in the world! (laughs) You just lose total perspective.
Mark: I’m assuming it was great to get all the same guys back again this time? Russell and co do a great job on the album, and I love Chris’ mixing too. How did it all start? Do you commence as soon as the last album is in the can or are things relatively fresh?
Joel: I feel that maybe the guitar riffs went down in maybe early 2018 when I laid down the scratch tracks- and that’s what goes to Vinny (Appice), then Vinny laid down his stuff I forget when exactly, but then Tony (Frankin) was after him, then I laid down the lyrics after that and a guide vocal for the record which I know I did when I was in Australia with Cher at the end of 2018. So that’s when it went to Russell (Allen) and then in 2019 I thought it would be out at some point, but we just hit a bad time for getting it done with Russell’s schedule and waiting on him getting his vocals done. Then he had a health situation with TSO when he fell off the stage, he broke ribs, it was a really big deal. So anyway eventually last year we kinda cleared everyone’s schedule and finally got it on the fast track and Russell got his stuff done, I did my guitar tracks, my real guitar tracks, and finally Jeff sang his backgrounds and Derek did his keyboards. Sherinian was like a monster dude! He did the whole album in like two days! It was ridiculous – I gave him the record and two days later he had tracks for everything. He was a total machine.
Mark: There’s so many great tracks on the album I just wanted to talk to you about two of my favourites. The first is ‘Reach the Sky’ the track I keep coming back to?
Joel: Gosh where do I start with that? I wrote that riff on the Whitesnake Tour Bus at some point. I remember playing t in the front lounge and Tommy Aldrich was kinda drumming along with me which was kinda fun. He was just tapping along on the seats, so I kept going. Lyrically it’s just a song about not having a ceiling on yourself. If your methods are true and you work hard and you’re a good guy the sky’s the limit. That’s the way I feel sometimes with just where my life has already gone and where it can go if I just continue to work hard and do my best all the time. It’s kinda cheesy, but it’s kinda inspirational.
Mark: And that’s exactly what we need in these times. We’ve seen you don here in Australia a few times now, at the end of 2018 with Cher and in early 2020 before the craziness began with Whitesnake, a tour that didn’t quite go to plan.
Joel: With the Scorpions yeah.
Mark: It was funny how that tour turned out everything was great in Melbourne and then illness in the Scorpions ranks. I know a lot of people thought you should have played a double set but it’s not quite how it works is it!
Joel: I don’t think it was up to us because technically those were Scorpions shows, the promoters had it set up like that as far as I know. It’s always a lot more complicated than people realise. It’s not like two bands in a bar and one band’s sick so the other just goes on. I mean if you bought a ticket to see scorpions what happens there? It’s a tricky situation when stuff like that happens. People were saying “The least you can do is, this or that” but hey man, do you realise how complicated this is? It’s hard for the fans who have waited so long, but it’s always more complicated than people would recognise.
Mark: And then you see the dramas play out on social media, sometimes it gets heated but I guess it shows the fans are passionate about their music.
Joel: Well yeah, it’s also just I mean that the stakes are higher in Australia because people fly from all around your huge country to see shows, people have booked hotels and everything and make a big event of it. People in the States are very much not like that people just get in their car and take the 30 minute drive back home. So I get it, I totally get it, that’s a bummer because you never want to disappoint anybody. But at the same time when you’re down there like that with another band you’re very much letting the two managements figure it out with the promoter, it’s my job to play the songs man, it’s not my job to plan the tour! But as a player it’s a bummer when you go all the way down there and you can’t hit everything, I was so disappointed about that and I know the Scorps were bummed because they had bad luck the previous tour down there so it was like a double whammy. 2 in a row for them, they were so upset and we were seeing them every day, and for Whitesnake we hadn’t been down there in my time in the band yet, but what can you do man? You just roll with it, but we were able to play the Melbourne and Sydney shows thank god and then go on to Indonesia and Singapore. And that was the end of our year man. That was when this whole Covid thing shut everything down for us.
Mark: With that much touring coming to a stop everyone’s world has changed. But here in the West of Australia we’ve had just the one case in ten months, we’re an almost Covid-free zone. You may have to quarantine for 14 days, but any chance of you hopping over with these guys to play the new album for us? (laughs)
Joel: Yeah! (laughs) Hotel costs would certainly wipe out making any money! (laughs) but you never know down the road man what could happen with playing live – we just need to get the world open! We did play one gig in support of ‘Dying to Live’ the 2015 record on the Monsters of Rock Cruise, so it happened! So never to say never with that, I’d love to do a run, that would be great. We’d love to put together a mini tour with it, so you never know. I’d love to come to Australia in a flash. One thing I’ve learnt is that life takes you to places you never thought you’d be in. Just playing guitar for Cher or playing in Rock of Ages those are my perfect examples – I never thought I’d be doing either one of those things. Playing in a show on Broadway or playing with a Pop person like Cher, but it’s amazing when stuff like that works out and ends up being a terrific experience. So you never know.
Mark: It makes you wonder what’s going to creep up on you next! Cher is one of those names that’s always been there, a great survivor. It must be surreal to be up there on stage with a legend like that?
Joel: Well at the end of the day the professionalism thing always wins out – that is your job to do. But yeah, it’s a thrill to be able to work with people that have had amazing careers. But in the moment when you’re doing the gig it’s always about like ‘don’t screw up, do a good job (laughs) play the songs right and do exactly what you’re supposed to be doing!’ I’m definitely not standing there thinking “Oh my God I’m up here with Cher!” (laughs) But there are moments when I recognise that, but typically not in the moment in the gig.
Mark: People of course know you for your contributions to Whitesnake and Nightranger, nit to mention the other projects you’ve been involved in, but I find the solo records to be some of my favourite moments of yours, do you get equal satisfaction being involved in a band and solo situation?
Joel: well they’re only different in that when you’re part of a band you know, you’re responsible for a percentage of the sound, but with these (the ‘Hoekstra 13’ releases) because I’m writing the music, the melodies and the lyrics I’m responsible for a much larger percentage of the sound (laughs). I’m getting the final say over the mix and all that stuff so, in terms of what I’m the most proud of I could never really answer that, they’re just apples and oranges man. I mean is it fun to be the person who gets all the say? Hell yeah! But it’s also fun to be part of the process with some iconic people and fun to be part of some of the bands I’ve been in as well. To get to make some records with bands like Whitesnake and Nightranger – that’s great fun for a guy like me, so I love both I’m very happy with the band situations I’ve been in and I’m very happy with my own solo stuff. I’d be blessed to have just either one of those right?
Mark: Exactly. There’s a great solo record hitting soon for people to enjoy. Any word on when things might stir in the Whitesnake camp?
Joel: No, I haven’t really heard any plans from David. I think he’s expressed a desire to be able to get back out there again on the road but nothing specific at the moment. We’re just there for him whenever he needs us.
Mark: Just a couple of questions now from readers. The first is obviously you’ve been spending time working n this new records but have you found yourself taking up any new hobbies or doing anything different since Covid stopped or usual routines?
Joel: Well, I’m super, super busy man. Since the Covid hit I’ve finished up the tracks for this record, I put out the EchoBats Project with Tony Harnell the song ‘Save me from Loving You’, I’ve put out quarantine videos, I covered ‘Jane’ (The Jefferson Starship classic) with Mike Portnoy and Dino Jelusick, and ‘Stormbringer’ with Dino Jelusick and Virgil Donati, I was on Jen Majura’s Jam with Nico McBrain. Let’s see, gosh, I’ve been on two compilations, and playing on other people’s stuff, I would say three or four sessions a week. Then teaching thirty lessons a week, doing Masterclasses for Rock and Roll Fantasy Camp, doing cameos and personalised messages for people – I would say 10-215 a week, so I’m just constantly going. I just turned in the songs to Michael Sweet for his project with Nathan James that I signed up to do. And also co-writing a little bit with my friend Jim Peterick for an album he’s producing right now. So it never ends, I mean I’ve been writing and doing sessions and lessons and writing, I’m slammed every day right now, not to mention that I’m a Dad and have two small kids at home! So I wear the Dad hat a good percentage of the day as well!
Mark: (laughs) I can see that the exotic new hobbies will have to wait! Nothing’s slowing you down mate!
Joel: (laughs)
Mark: Thank you so much for your time Joel, it’s always a pleasure. I love the new album, for me at this stage I think it’s up there with the best I’ve heard so far this year and I prefer it to the first album which I loved.
Joel: Thank you, that’s great to hear, you’re only about the fourth person to give me feedback so far so that’s great. You’re always afraid that you’re going to drop the ball. I liked ‘Dying to Live’ I thought it was a great album so you always worry, but I think this one is a little more focused in terms of the sound of it. ’Dying to Live’ from the start of the project to the end kind of changes in terms of what it was going to be. So it started out very heavy – I was writing songs like ’Killer Be Killed’ and then by the end I was writing songs like ‘Start Again’ and ‘What We Believe’ – you know the more commercial sound, the more melodic, lighter sound, so it really had a wide scope. So it was a bit ‘all over the map’ but my problem is I like those kinds of albums.
Mark: So do I when they work and not a lot of people can do that. But you managed it. I gave ‘Dying to Live’ I think4 and a half out of 5 so I’ve got nowhere to go with this one (laughs)
Joel: (laughs) Awesome man. I loved that first album, I worked hard on it and I didn’t want to follow it up with anything that would disappoint people. But you never know how people will react, so this one I guess is a little more focused with some solid rock tracks, whereas a couple of tracks on ‘Dying to Live’ were a little more on the fringe. But we’ll see, I hope people love ‘Running Games’ too.
Mark: Two great albums, you can’t do better than that. Hopefully we’ll catch up Downunder some time or maybe on the Cruise if we ever get back to cruising!
Joel: Dare to dream! (laughs) sounds amazing. Cheers Mark, thanks for the kind words, it’s good to hear that, trust me! I can hear myself telling my wife later what you said! It’s exciting for me.
Mark: Thanks Joel, take care mate.
Joel: Cheers!
JOEL HOEKSTRA’S 13 – ‘RUNNING GAMES’ is out NOW!
