John Waite has had a wonderful career to date, and whilst many know him from his time in The Babys and Bad English it’s his solo work that really shows the soul of the man. The sheer variety and depth and passion in his work, particularly that which he produced in the 90’s is something that few others have achieved with such eloquence and grace. His new EP ‘Anything’ is right up there with his best and if you are a John Waite fan then there’s lots looming large on the horizon – not only a new collection ‘Singles’ but a tour with Aussies Rick Springfield and Men at Work. Looking further ahead… well I’ll let John tell you about that.
When I talk with John I always find myself talking about art in the broadest sense, and knowing how much he loves to read I’m always interested to talk about too and how dreams and inspiration permeate his work. Every time I speak with him I feel I learn a little more about the man with the extraordinary talent and insight,. Talking to John Waite is like peeling back the layers of an onion as John Lennon observed, there’s always something more beneath the surface. I just hope that next time I’m in Santa Monica John is at home because there’s a serious chance we could talk all day.
John: Hey!
Mark: Hi John how are you?
John: I’m good thank you! Slightly stressful (we had some issues connecting) but I’m glad we got that sorted! Where are you?
Mark: I’m in Perth Western Australia.
John: Oh fantastic, I thought you were local!
Mark: No but I hail from closer to where you’re from originally I’ originally from Nottingham. Thanks so much for taking the time to talk to The Rockpit today – this is actually our fourth interview over the years so it’s good to see you again. I think the last time we spoke was when you played the Australian Tour back in 2018.
John: Yeah it’s been a while, it seems like yesterday, but it has been a while.
Mark: It has, we had that gap in between when that strange thing happened to the planet. Last time we spoke I congratulated you on still sounding wonderful after all these years and you told me that you still didn’t do warm ups. I’m taking it that you’re still not doing them as you’re sounding great on the EP!
John: Thank you! No, still not, I just seem to have it. It’s my thing. I’m sure that one of these days I’ll wake up and it won’t be there, it’s just the natural progression of time, you know. I just had a birthday a couple of days ago on the 4th July and on the 3rd we played a concert, an open air concert, and at the end we were doing the encores ‘Whole Lotta Love’ and I was belting through this song, hitting all the notes and I had to stop and smile, thinking it shouldn’t still be there. But at the same time the old Blues guys seem to manage it very well.
Mark: They do don’t they.
John: So I listen to my heart more than anything, I just jump in. I don’t really think of myself as a singer still. I look at myself as John Waite – the whole thing. It’s just a vehicle that I’m riding, you know, in my head I’m here and I’m complete and this is what I do. I donlt psych myself up, I really don’t, I just go straight in.
Mark: It’s a big year for John Waite fans, there’s a lot happening and there’s so much of it I wanted to talk with you about. The EP is wonderful.
John: Oh thank you.
Mark: And I love that you put out an EP rather than an album, I think that’s the way to go, 5 great songs.
John: Yeah I think so I don’t think people need albums anymore, to sit through ten, twelve songs. If you put out four, five songs that’s like half an hour, and in a world that’s so busy with the internet and information coming at you – I think with five songs you can really speak to people. And you can focus. Most bands run in the studio with five great songs and they’re really pleased with themselves until the record company says “It’s meant to be ten songs” and you give yourselves a nervous breakdown trying to write five more. But I really do think it’s redundant, definitely an EP.
Mark: Absolutely and you’ve given us four great originals and if you download the EP you get the bonus a cover of what I think was one of Dylan’s finest moments. The EP is bursting with ‘summer energy’ – the first two songs ‘Lifeguard’ and ‘Anything’ are great fun, light summer songs; but ‘Anything’ is just so pure in it’s intent there’s something very special about that one.
John: Well yeah, I’ve had that song for two years and I kept coming back to it and thinking “It’s too Pop, it’s too honest” I men what a thing to say, but it’s just too revealing, to pure as you say. And like you mentioned ‘Masters of War’ the cover if you get the download – the times were live in are so bullshit now. Everything is violence and everything is predatory and there is such a lack of humility and compassion in the world. It (the EP) needed both sides of the coin it needed ‘Anything’ to say “It’s OK, this is how pure we can be and this is how I feel about it” and then ‘Masters of War’ is a direct kick-back to Vladimir Putin who is a complete arsehole, and I wish him all the worst, and the side that chooses violence. You know whether we are programmed to with handguns and automatic weapons – we just had a complete tragedy on the 4th July over here in America.
Mark: Absolutely terrible, I saw that on the news.
John: It’s just… I mean… Get a grip! And it’s not just the fact that guns are available, it’s that there is nobody here taking care of people with mental health issues and the homeless are on the streets discarded and a lot of them have mental health issues. But instead of rescuing these people at a ground level and treating these people, and making sure that you can’t get an AK-47 when you’ve just left school. There’s an absurdity in what is going on – the left is just ridiculous and the right is frightening and if we don’t come into the middle to sort this out I donlt think we’re going to make it through, I really don’t. I always thought that no matter what happened in the world we’d come through but now I’m looking and thinking “Maybe it’s not gonna be that way”.
Mark: I thought that that people would have to come together and reject the extremes for teh sake of everyone, but at the moment it’s like the two extremes are getting further apart and dragging people with them. There’s no middle ground for anyone, but there are so many interest groups relishing it and so many factors.
John: I think part of it is the internet too, all that information coming at anybody that wants to get it and having the access to speak out. There’s so many people talking at once nobody is making sense, and nobody is stopping to listen. In a conversation like this, I suppose, as we’re gentlemen we’ll listen and let the other guys speak, but when you’re on the internet no one is stopping to hear the other guy’s point of view, they’re just coming on. And I think that pause between people in a conversation, or lack of a pause, might be the problem.
Mark: Oh it is. Today is sadly an “‘I’m right, you’re wrong and I don’t want to talk about it” culture and no one learns anything from that.
John: Yes. That’s it.
Mark: Lyrically the EP sees you in fine form. I love the image that you conjure in ‘Grenadine’ that one really sticks.
John: Well that was made up on the spot, we were just jamming in the studio, me an Anthony my collaborator on two of those songs. A glass of wine, or maybe we were smoking a joint, I have no idea, I don’t really smoke pot that much; but it has that feel of having done a long day’s work and you’re just like, hanging. I mean I come in at the top of the song singing “I’ve got pockets full of change, your name, your number, sitting on a barstool baby, it’s 3 a.m. and I’m still sober. I need to find a door to lock you out, I’ve got my reasons and all you’ve got is doubts.“. I just made it up. And then grenadine is a word I use for all sorts of things, and it’s the colour of lipstick. And it’s the colour of wine. So instead of saying lipstick you say grenadine, because you’re looking at the bottles at the back of the bar and grenadine is a mix with tequila. So it just fell together, all the information was in front of me, I just took notes.
Mark: I love the way you said that. Another thing I was intrigued by was the cover art. The wonderfully interesting, at lest to me, collection of items you have on there. Stuff like that fascinates me.
John: (laughs)
Mark: I noticed that there was ticket to Lancaster Castle on there.
John: Yeah.
Mark: Is that actually yours, I always save things like that!?
John: Yeah (laughs) I’m very sentimental like that, you know. Like I’m sure that when I was in Australia I must have found something walking down the street. You see things like that, I donlt know who it was, there was a Dadaist artist – Kurt Schwitters who said that “bus tickets are the fallen leaves of the city”
Mark: I love that.
John: You look at something like a bus ticket, or a ‘Lancaster Castle Admits One’ and somebody has sat down and made that. It’s in broad type on pink furry paper, and it has its own character and its own thing, and it’s kind of beautiful, and it’s detritus, it’s stuff that you find walking down the pavement. It’s something that you see in the bottom of your luggage, you know. And I kept these things in a shoe box. Some of them are quite valuable – like there’s puzzle rings, my old engagement ring, a Mickey Mouse watch… and they all wind up in this shoe box. And I got the phone call from the guy who puts together the designs for the album and he said “What you got?” because I usually do an image or paint something but I said “I don’t know , what the fuck? ” then I thought “Why not?” I went in teh back room got the shoe box put a canvas down, arranged it, put a picture of my girlfriend on there, took a picture with my i-phone, sent it back to him and that was the album cover. Pretty much like ‘Grenadine’ – ad hoc.
Mark: It’s great, and I love it. It’s something that I used to do whenever I’d come over to the States or go somewhere in Europe I’d come back with all these bits and pieces.
John: Yeah.
Mark: And I’d just put them away and years later you’d get them out and think I know where that was from, that was Paris when I went to see whatever it was…
John: Yes, you can buy a statue of the Eiffel Tower when you are in Paris, as you do, or you might get again, a ticket to a cinema on the Champs Elesees and you think “Fucking hell that’s beautiful, you know, and when you pick that up you’ll think of the Champs Elesees and I actually did that, when I was in Paris I went to see… who wrote Citizen Kane? It’s early here! (laughs)
Mark: Orson Welles.
John: Orson Welles – I went to see him do Othello a little black and white movie he made, a labour of love that took him all his life. I remember going to see that in a tiny cinema on the Champs Elesees and flirting with a girl that sold me the ticket. And I think I’ve still got that ticket, so it’s those things that are closer to our hearts that are important to us I think.
Mark: And love how they help as well, there’s nothing better than digging into a box of those things and bringing back those memories.
John: It’s like being a child at Christmas! You know you look at the things and memories flood back.
Mark: Maybe that’s just us John! (laughs)
John: (laughs) I hope not!
Mark: Where are you this week?
John: I’m in St Louis, we have a couple of days off so they stuck me in a hotel, it’s really beautiful, I woke up here today and it’s in the Country somewhere in Missouri. We’re playing tomorrow night and it’s just beautiful, it’s like The Overlook man, that Stephen King thing! I just walked out the door and the fucking corridors go for miles, and it’s like 15 feet across the isle there! It’s a really spectacular place, but I’m… doing my laundry! (laughs)
Mark: (laughs)
John: I just woke up, got my coffee and I’m doing my laundry!
Mark: Nice (laughs). There’s so much going on for John Waite fans this year – you’ve not only got the EP but ‘Singles’ is coming out too.
John: Yeah that comes out in about a month.
Mark: And you’ve reworked some of your favourite songs?
John: Well, not really there’s one on there a complete production, ‘Missing You’, there’s a live version of ‘Every Time I Think of You’, a live version of ‘In Dreams’, ‘New York City Girl’ – it’s extensive. We had to take a couple of songs off because we just couldn’t get them onto the CD, but there’s about 24 songs on there and I think maybe for the upload for the internet maybe we can add those songs and make it even bigger. But um, ‘Best’ came out maybe five years ago and there was the duet with Alison Krauss, and it was really good, but it was time to update it. But I’ve released a lot of stuff over the last two years – there was the triple acoustic album that came out last year called ‘Wooden Heart’ and then I put out the EP and now we’re coming with this ‘Singles’ thing. We’re also going on a pretty extensive tour with Rick Springfield.
Mark: I know, that was one of the things I was going to ask you about – there’s the Australian connection going on there – you’ve got Rick and Men at Work.
John: Yeah, I feel like a wild colonial boy! (John sings ‘Wild Colonial Boy’).
Mark: (laughs) I love it, you just have to bring it Downunder – we’d love it!
John: It took me all my career to find an agent that would take us down To Australia. And as a kid without the internet with The Babies I never knew how big The Babies were in Australia. And no one is ever going to tell you as they just want you to break in America. And I kept saying “What about Australia? We’re going to Japan, let’s do Australia?” And it was always “Ah yeah, we’ll do that next year.” And it just slipped away, and I feel terrible about it. I really do you know, but at least we came down four years ago, we had Sarah McLeod open the shows, which was delightful – she was great. We all love Sarah. And we played clubs, we played theatres and we tried to make it right. But I think now having done that. we’d like to come back again and really bring it. So if there’s a shot for coming down I would love to do it a second time and spend some time there afterwards or before. I loved Melbourne, Melbourne and Sydney really spoke to me – they were great.
Mark: I love Melbourne, I’ve lived in Sydney, Melbourne and Perth and a few other places as well but Melbourne just has that feel to it, it’s very European.
John: It’s very artistic, it really is, the streets and the trams that you just jump on and the side streets and the graffiti and the whole thing, it has a real feeling of being an epicentre. There’s something going on there all the time! (laughs)
Mark: I always remember getting back home from L.A. at 2a.m and Melbourne’s still alive at 2a.m. and there’s not that many places that still are!
John: (laughs)
Mark: One of the most exiting bits of news though for me and one of the many reasons I wanted to talk to you is there’s a documentary coming out!
John: Yeah, there is. It’s been done for a while, it’s been done for like six months. Gold Circle Films put it together, Norm Waitt bankrolled it, he used to run Gold Circle. They came to me with a full-scale camera unit – two major cameras, make-up, the works, it was just insane; it wasn’t just one of those hand-held camera things. And I thought “Oh hang on…” and then I thought “Why not? It’s an interesting story and they were passionate about it.” I tried to leave people out that were… actually there were a couple of people that I just said “They were fucking bastards” I said it, and I expect a lawsuit on a couple of things I said, but its the truth so fuck it! I’ve worked with producers that really didn’t care, that didn’t get it and were fucking nasty but who you had to deal with when you were a young man and trying it get through. It’s not easy, you know? And true friends came out of the shadows and said some really nice things about me. And my girlfriend was extremely honest, and I told them if I drop the ‘F-Bomb’ or I show up after three glasses of red wine, or I say something that’s off the wall then keep it in! I don’t want to see it. They sent me a copy like three months ago, five months go or whatever… and it took me two months to watch it!
Mark: Wow.
John: I just refused to watch it Mark. And then one night I’m just laying in bed and thinking “Well why not?” And I watched it and… you know I would have done some things very differently, but that’s good, it’s just not what I would do. So it’s called ‘The Hard Way’ and they’re looking for a distributor, buy it should come out by the end of the year.
Mark: That will be great, I’d love to see it. There’s a couple of anniversaries as well this year – 40 years can you believe since ‘Ignition’
John: Wow! I didn’t actually do the mathematics on that, but that’s stunning because that seems like… that’s when i moved to New York. That was the New York that had teeth and claws and was dangerous and full of night life and underground. And the people that were in Rock and Roll were few and far between, but they were really genuine. You know, it was Johnny Thunders and it was Patty Smith, and the Clubs were outstanding. I actually jammed with Pete Townshend in a club on 72nd Street and I jammed with Steve Marriott.
Mark: Steve Marriott my hero. Moments like that are pure magic.
John: But that’s the new York it used to be. I jammed with Stevie Wonder at The China Club. That’s how it used to be. And it’s not like that anymore. But then again music has changed.
Mark: And not for the better, music seems to have been taken over by people who aren’t really musicians, whilst artists like yourself just seem to get better.
John: Well I donlt want to say that.
Mark: (laughs)
John: We were at the airport too, and they were playing music and song after song was a rip-off – there was the Tom Tom Club, a rip off of that; and then there was a rip of of something else from the 80’s, then there was this really shitty, phoney, over-amped ballad thing that sounded like something else. There was nothing original. It’s like kids listen to music and go “Oh I’ll have that” and then they rewrite something based on someone else’s idea. Especially in Country music, it’s an embarrassment you know. But that’s how it’s changed, authenticity might not be available as it used to be because of the internet. Everything has changed here, like we talked bout before, all the dumbness and the violence that seems to be in the air – the internet is responsible for a lot of that. And the lack of integrity. But fuck it, if I can keep going and singing and writing for a couple of years, I’ll buy the farm, you know. I’ll just check out, thank you very much. But I don’t want to be in a world that’s full of shit, and I make plans every day. If it means moving somewhere, then that’s what I’ll do.
Mark: We could have a whole other conversation about the destructive powers of the internet but we’ll side step that one and focus on the light! I know that you have always been an avid reader, but I understand you’ve started writing too?
John: Oh yeah. I actually wrote a short story about a month ago. I wrote it in parts to amuse a friend of mine. And I have to say it was all done on the fly, I didn’t edit it, abut a guy looking for the ghost of his brother. And he winds up on the channel on a packet boat going to France after being in a fist fight in a bar in Soho and quitting his job. And he’s looking for his brother Joe who went missing when he was like seven. And he gets to Dieppe or wherever and he is drunk on his arse and he gets through customs and he’s still drinking and he almost gets in another fight in a park when he crashes out, still looking for his brother. He’s in this manic state. His brother got kidnapped when he was seven and he was there and he’s traumatised. And then he goes to like a café – a caravan on wheels, like a gypsy caravan for the dockers who are working. And he has a shot of Calvados and it’s all very surreal like a Van Gogh painting. And then these two guys attempt to mug him and there’s a knife flight, and he loses. And as he looks up at the light and these moths he becomes four again and meets his brother. But it surprised me as it was all done on the fly – to see if I could do it I suppose. I finished and it i was quite happy, I thought it was very good and my brother’s called Joe so there must be some deep profound thing in there.
Mark: It sounds like something I’d like to hear more of. It never ceases to amaze me how the mind takes the kernel of an idea and runs with it. I remember when we last spoke that you told me you always had very vivid dreams so maybe you’re channelling that?
John: Yeah. Last night I woke up and I’d been dreaming of Lancaster again. (John’s home town) I had three separate dreams all of Lancaster and they were incredibly wild. But I donlt know anymore. As Patty Smith said ‘A dream is not a dream’.
Mark: Food for thought. It’s also 35 years since Bad English formed.
John: Is it! Man! Oh God, that seems like yesterday too! But you know what? The best part, the best was the 90’s. I made ‘Temple Bar’ then.
Mark: My favourite.
John: And that was the one. It took me all my life to make that record. And my life in New York City at the point and the musicians I was playing with, the women I knew, the nightlife… I was living on Madison Avenue on the upper east side and it was just a different world. My head was on fire, I just couldn’t stop writing and I managed to pull that together. So, you know, what a life! I’ve just been so blessed to have had these watershed moments that I didn’t go looking for they just came to me. Or maybe I just channelled them or something. But if I got hit by a truck crossing the road today there’s really nothing that I went for that I didn’t get. And it was honestly come by, it wasn’t bought. I had a wonderful life you know.
Mark: And long may it continue. I need to hear more music from you and maybe some stories.
John: Well I’ve got cassette player – a little Radio Shack cassette player and a box of cassettes. And it’s pretty much like when we talked about the album cover, collecting pieces of stuff you know. Well in this box of cassettes, which is primitive stuff, but I don’t trust digital anymore because you can lose it all in a heartbeat. On them I have like 20, 30, 40 songs and bits and pieces that I wrote all by myself. And I know before I take my final bow, I’m going to make an album out of it. And that… that could be it you know, I donlt know if I could top that. There’s a time to take a bow and say “Thank you it’s been a wonderful, I love you and God bless you.” Maybe that’s coming up and maybe that’s the album that will be the last album.
Mark: But I know it might e the end I can just see you there sat on the porch like Hemmingway writing the great Englishman in America novel, maybe a tequila and grenadine concoction in hand.
John: Well maybe… There’s some people you read, you know, I mean I only really properly discovered Hemmingway like four years ago – I’d read Farewell to Arms, and I thought ‘Mmmm. I don’t get it’ Then I read it again like fifteen years later and I thought ‘That’s not bad at all.’ And then I read it, I found a really beaten up old copy in a bookshop about three years ago and I read it again and I went ‘I get it’. It took a while for Hemmingway to come through. I thought it was delightful – when I got his writing style I was charmed, and then I read everything else. ‘For Whom the Bell Tolls’ is pretty good, ‘A Moveable Feast’ I love.
Mark: Thank you so much for taking the time to talk today John, I’ll let you get back to your laundry. I hope we get the chance to catch up again sooner rather than later.
John: I hope so I enjoy speaking to you. Give my love to Australia and If I come down there again which I sincerely hope I do, and it will probably be next year if I do, come and see us and make sure you say hello.
Mark: And once we spoke you invited me out to have a beer in Santa Monica, so next time I get over your way I’ll be sure to give you a call.
John: Make sure you do!
ANYTHING – is out everywhere now
SINGLES is out soon.
You can hear an audio excerpt of this interview on The Rockpit Radio show.