Back in the eighties the good people of the printed press got excited by a new band from Leeds named Rose of Avalanche “More conceptually magnificent than the Ramones, more noisily beauteous than an hour in bed with a young Jane Fonda…” *Sounds Music Paper 1987*
Now whilst times have changed and descriptive reviewing has been shorn of all such outrageous assertions, Rose of Avalanche were certainly a band that took my attention and added to my vinyl stack before the 90’s came and they disappeared… Well that’s not quite the story and we will let guitarist Paul James Berry fill you in on that. Did I mention the new album? Well there is one, and live dates.
This is the interview that almost never made it to print. But a lost (possibly stolen) phone couldn’t even stop it due to a chance discovery of the recording in ‘the cloud’ a month later (it was news to me that I backed up to the cloud)… So here is part one of our completely unedited two part conversation with Australia calling France ..
Paul: How you doing? I can hear you but you sound like you’re on Mars or something.
Mark: Pretty good thanks. I’ll tell you what we feel like we’re on Mars at the minute living in Western Australia cut off from the rest of the world and civilization.
Paul: I’m guessing it’s pretty warm there?
Mark: It is rather warm.
Paul: How warm is warm? Is it roasting things on the top of the car warm?
Mark: (laughs) pretty much yeah. We’re in our third week of 40 degree plus heat! (that’s over 100 folks)
Paul: Fucking hell! You know I’m living in France at the moment and here it’s rather cold. I’m frantically packing at the moment, I’ve been living in the gatehouse of this castle, no word of a lie, and I’m moving back to England, to Leeds.
Mark: Oh, OK that’ll be a bit of a change there’s a shortage of Castles in Leeds.
Paul: (Laughs) There no heating or heaters so to speak, just an open fireplace! It doesn’t get that cold but it’s still like -5 or 6. Which is a bit cold when you’re trying to play guitar and write songs.
Mark: Talking of Leeds I remember getting in a car with a few mates and heading to Leeds Poly to see you in about 1987, I think.
Paul: Fucking hell! Leeds Poly! We’re we good? (laughs)
Mark: Pretty good, good enough for me to go out and invest in a bit if vinyl the next day. The bill was you, All about Eve, and The Mission.
Paul: Wow that’s a trip! And as you probably heard it’s all going full circle – we’re going on Tour with the Mission again.
Mark: It’s interesting isn’t it after all these years. I certainly want to touch on everything but I definitely wanted to ask about that. After all that time, almost a lifetime ago in 1987 you played with those guys and you are again in 2022! 35 years later!
Paul: Yeah. Do you know much about the Rose of Avalanche, have you read much about how it was started and all that?
Mark: I definitely think we should run through the history. But I’ll tell you what, one of the things that always intrigued me about the band, I remember reading years ago that before you even payed a god you went and did a Peel Session which would have been incredible, but I guess at that time being so new to everything not as daunting and overwhelming as it might have been?
Paul: Yeah totally, that’s spot on really to be honest because it’s all about hindsight isn’t it? When you look back you think this and this, but yeah it’s true we’d only rehearsed. The story was that Alan, the bass-player, myself on guitar and Phillip the singer were at school together and we got together as bands do fucking around in bedrooms and what have you. We got a few songs together started rehearsing in little Church Halls and stuff and then eventually ended up at this place called Parkside Studios in Leeds. And there was a guy there that ran the studio, and studio sounds like a glamorous thig, it was just a little rehearsal space, and he wanted to just record some bands that were using the place and he asked us to record some stuff. It was ‘L.A. Rain’ and ‘American Girls’ in a tiny little crappy studio which was part of the place. So we did and it went on this compilation and that was it, Pealy (John Peel) heard it and we started doing stuff. All before we done gigs. So to answer you question we didn’t really think about it, we just got on with it, we were enjoying ourselves. We were just trying to do what we had to do, you have to remember Leeds in the 80’s and England in general, it was a very particular time politically, financially. The strikes, the Falklands, loads of things going on: so there was always a kind of dark heaviness going on. I’m hoping it’s changed a bit by the time I get back (laughs).
Mark: (laughs) It was definitely very interesting growing up in those times. I was actually going to ask you later about the move to France…
Paul: Well the quick version is when we started the band we trotted on for a year or two with the original bass player Alan, and then he left to go other things. I continued and then Glen the other guitarist came on board. We did a couple of albums and then we split up, or rather Glen left and then we went through a number of different formations. I continued with Phillip and we did quite a lot of stuff and another two albums. But eventually it got to the stage where I just got bored of being ‘just’ the guitar player truthfully. And looking back now it all sounds really good, if you said to a young band now you can Tour round Europe, play Stadiums… You know it sounds good, but for me personally i just needed something else.
Mark: When was that?
Paul: I think around 1990? The early 90’s and I just said “That’s it, I’m going” and that was it the band split up. I went off, because I only played guitar for the band originally (laughs) sorry to the guitar players out there! ‘Only’! So I decided to go on a solo thing ‘undercover’ as it were – I needed to learn how to sing and stuff so I went down to London and lived in London for about seven years playing every fucking dove you can imagine.
Mark: I’m nodding.
Paul: And that grew to going round the country and then round Europe just doing my solo thing. I had an old 12 string guitar and would just whack on it, dreaming and trying to learn a little bit as well. Because as a band I think we paid our dues playing every little club around everywhere, but as a solo performer doing my own thing, I didn’t think I could do it. The only way to do it is to get on stage and make a fool of yourself until you feel you’ve got to a certain level. Fast-forward a bit, I did that a lot around the UK and then I did a lot of Europe and came back to London and moved down to Brighton down on teh Coast. Then I met a French girl basically.
Mark: I see. That explains it.
Paul: (laughs) from Paris, and then we moved to Paris and lived there for about five years before I got bored with the French people, and you do get bored with French people, they can be annoying! (laughs)
Mark: I must admit I did find that about certain Parisians, just like certain Londoners, but it’s quite nice when you get out of the city isn’t it?
Paul: Well this is the thing! (laughs) I got bored and moved back to England but didn’t go back North to Leeds or Yorkshire I went back to Brighton. And then I had a accident, a road accident that basically crippled me… And that’s a long long story, but basically I got run over by a 32-ton lorry literally. It left me in a wheel chair for a long long time and then sticks and crutches, and to be honest my leg’s still fucked really, truthfully. And after that I couldn’t stomach staying there and so with the French connection with my wife I decided to move, but I couldn’t move to a city. I wanted something completely different, something more rural. I ended up completely in the middle of France in Auvergne where I am now. I’ve been here for seven years but I want to go back because I’ve been developing some of my solo stuff and the band is starting to do stuff and I have to get out, go back to the source and see how crap Leeds really is! (laughs)
Mark: (laughs) I’m sure it was the European City of culture not that long ago!
Paul: I’m kicking myself (if I could with this leg) saying that because it is lovely in a way, postcardy, at it’s most idyllic. But it’s not enough: one of the reasons to move here was to go away and do my tours and come back into ‘peace’ as it were and live in two worlds. But of course the last couple of years haven’t been like that for many people and so this rural situation doesn’t fit anymore, so hence I’m going back into the milieu of ‘dirty Leeds’ basically. I’ll see what happens (laughs).
Mark: It’s interesting isn’t it taking a step into the past wondering what part it will play in the future?
Paul: It is, I mean I’ve been back and been there on tour but I was playing a solo tour in Germany and someone phoned me and asked me if I’d be interested in getting Rose of Avalanche back together to play a Festival. And truthfully it’s not the first time I’ve been asked this before, as you can imagine. I mean we weren’t that big, but we were at a certain level I guess. And in the past I’d always said “No, no, no.” I don’t want to go back and what have you, but this time I literally stopped the car and burst out laughing, I was coming out of the Black Forest, but then I thought “You know what? Why not?” So I got back, and I hadn’t spoken to anybody in the band since I left, and some even before like Alan the bass-player – I hadn’t seen him for like 30 years! So I didn’t even know if they were alive! But it’s easy to track people down these days and I did, they were alive so that was a good thing (laughs) and I said “Do you fancy getting together?” And chiefly for me it’s not a musical adventure which sounds weird as a musician, it was more of a personal thing I think, to get back to the roots and see some mates. Like I said, I was at school with some of these guys. And there was no real hassle when I split, I just wanted to do something different.
Mark: I imagine it’s going to be incredibly interesting on a personal level.
Paul: Absolutely, but for us there was a massive hiccup when Covid licked off because this happened in 2019.
Mark: I know, I had a mate who saw you was it at the Fox and…
Paul: The Fox and Newt! (laughs) Well that was a test! It was literally a test in a little kind of pub in Leeds! They were interested so I got on a plane pre-Covid just with a guitar and we set up a little rehearsal. We did one rehearsal and I thought “Fucking hell I can’t do this” It was terrible and I really was going to just walk off. And then I think someone talked me into it ad I went back, and really this is a human thing, it’s about seeing people. And once I was back I thought “This is alright” Phillip the singer hadn’t literally picked a microphone up for twenty odd years!
Mark: Wow.
Paul: And he got it out (laughs) well he had to buy one I think! And he was good, and at a certain level he was even better than he was, he’d got over a certain timidness that he had before, same with Glen the guitarist, he’s played with Mark the drummer in a kind of Bluesy Rocky kind of band on and off for a number of years, so they’ve kept it going. Alan who was with us originally for a couple of years – he hadn’t picked his bass up for thirty years! I though “Oh God” (laughs) but I really wanted to go back to that original nucleus, that trio who did ‘L.A. Rain’ and ‘Castles’ when Alan was a member and we had a drum machine. But he could play! And he’d only played about six gigs in ’85 or ’86 or whenever it was. But yeah he’d been working at it. So the test was one rehearsal and arrange this little gig for friends, and you know what it was great, it was really, really good. There were no egos or anything, it was just a really good laugh. As corny as that sounds it was really good to be playing with friends.
Mark: A great reason for doing anything.
Paul: It was a learning curve for me though, I’d become used to being on my own and dictating things, now I had to listen to people! With me I plan everything but with the band thing it was more “See what happens” which is good. So after that we thought it would be great to get some more gigs and then we got the Mission Tour which was scheduled for 2020! With Covid everything just went a bit pear-shaped!
Mark: It’s so interesting to see that line-up together again that I saw all those years ago. If I could get out of the country I’d be over in a shot! Let me ask you something I’ve always wanted to ask about labels, back in a world when there were far fewer ‘labels’ for bands – the whole ‘Goth’ thing? When I was a kid I saw bands like Bauhaus, Play Dead, and The Sisters as ‘Goth’ bands, but saw bands like you and The Mission as just Rock bands? Maybe I was just too eclectic?
Paul: Well this is interesting isn’t it… I mean.. I don’t know how to put this but I think because I’ve been away doing my singer songwriter moody stuff for years and then coming back in 2019 I’ve been away from all of these tags and labels. But we are a Goth band apparently. And I’ve been listening to the recordings of the gigs we played that year…
Mark: Well you had a drum machine at one point, would that qualify you?
Paul: (laughs) Yeah, so I listen to the stuff and I think, this is just a Rock band. But the association of the times in the 80’s puts us in with the clique I suppose with The Sisters of Mercy, The March Violets, Red Lorry, all that kind of stuff. And I’m not knocking that at all because I’m proud of being brought up and submersed in that environment because it was bloody great.
Mark: Absolutely, I loved it.
Paul: I don’t think I’m overanalyzing it but like we said at the beginning about the environment in England at a particular time to an extent we were all (laughs) at bit Gothic!
Mark: (laughs)
Paul: And in the UK especially in the North it was particular. But I do think we have some songs that have a more ‘Gothic’ sound if you analyze it – where we had Phalanges and Chorus on guitars and that kind of stuff. But the UK loves putting everybody in their own boxes I think. They need something to categorize everybody. I learnt that a lot coming over here actually and travelling around Europe and going to clubs where you can go and listen to several different kinds of music and it’s no problem. I don’t know if it’s good or bad, I don’t really like it, I don’t seek out music because of a tag or a particular image.
Mark: As Steve Marriott once sad there’s two types of music – good and bad.
Paul: (laughs) I’ll go with that one! (laughs) and there’s super shit music too!
Mark: (laughs)
Paul: But that’s the truth isn’t it! We just got asked to play the ‘Leeds Goth Festival’ which is charity do. It’s in July and we’ll do it, not because it’s a charity but again they’ve used this word Goth. Now some bands that I’ve seen for them it’s like a Halloween party, but Goth for me was never that, it was all about that Post-Punk attitude. But then again people like to define labels their own way. We’re happy to play to Goths and Grandmas you know.
Mark: There was a sound I guess, and that Leeds connection too and each to their own. I always imagined that you were listening to MC5 and the Stooges and bands like that rather than watching Bella Lugosi movies and getting into the fashion side of things.
Paul: Totally, and in younger days with Phillip the singer we used to just bunk off school and go round his mum’s house and make egg sandwiches and listen to The Beatles! (laughs) That was our thing, a real sixties’ sound. This was before we played anything, we were about 14 or 15 or even younger, we listened to a lot of music before we picked anything up. The Doors and then came the Leeds movement – things like March Violets and things like that…
Mark: Which my mate once told me we called The March of Violence!’
Paul: (laughs) But I kink crucial to our sound, if we have a sound, is that there was a big movement coming over from the US: things like R.E.M., Rain Parade, bands like that. They only came to a couple of venues, they were only playing to like 50, 30 people but we saw them in that time and it was a big thing for us. It was just so interesting for us to see them, I love that sound, and I also love that Punk sound as well, but that kind of mélange, that mixture of things is probably part of how we ended up writing stuff like we did I guess.
Mark: And you wrote some great songs, as well as all the big ones so many more gems hidden in the grooves. Which brings us nicely to what we are supposed to be talking about: the new album.
Paul: Yeah, that’s probably my fault to be honest really. We didn’t have anything new because it’s been difficult to organize that with the fact that some of teh band aren’t great with communication and I’m stuck over here. You now, file-swapping, I’m OK with that kind of stuff but some of them aren’t. SO I thought can we just get something to put out just to get back into it, as it were. So I was looking back through the archive and thought it might be interesting just t release the BBC thing. The John Peel and the Janice Long sessions, who has just died recently as you know (Janice, the first woman with her own show on BBC Radio 1 died on Christmas day last year), just as a step forward to see if it is interesting. It was hard work truthfully working with the BBC and trying to get all of their information was not any easy thing. But it’s all nostalgic truthfully, it’s a very nostalgic kind of thing and that’s OK. We played Nottingham after we did that little pub gig at the Fox and Newt.
Mark: At the Angel.
Paul: Yeah, we played four gigs, four low key gigs which was kind of complicated with Covid and the restrictions, so we thought we’d just go small and go under the radar. So we did it and it was great. Four tiny gigs, one is Leeds, one in Nottingham, one in Brighton and the other in Northampton. But they were full and we had a good time, and like I said back to the original premise – this was about having a good time. But yeah, I’ve listed to some of the stuff and seen a couple of videos and of course you can pull holes in so much, but there’s a lot of energy there. A lot more than I expected.
PART TWO NEXT WEEK
