Over the years The Rockpit has had the chance to catch up with Nuno from Extreme a number of times, but this year with the release of ‘Six’ and the announcement of an Australian Tour what a great time to check back in with the man responsible for ‘that’ guitar on songs like ‘Rise’ and so many more. We discuss song-writing, the making and remaking of ‘Six’, new solo projects, masturbation, how the best song wins and why ‘More Than Words’ wasn’t a hit… All that and coming back to Australia to play for us again…
Mark: Good morning Sir!
Nuno: Good evening Mark.
Mark: Has it been a long day?
Nuno: Nah man, I’m just editing a new video, I’ve had a day off – the first day off in a while.
Mark: Last time we spoke a few years back now we talked about the creative process and how at that time you’d effectively created and recreated a total of three albums of material. Was what we got this year with ‘Six’ another reiteration of that or did some of that earlier material make it through?
Nuno: No, not a lot survived. (laughs) Most of the new album is new songs – the vast majority.
Mark: Cool. We also talked about the fact that you are very much a band man you like the dynamics, love being around other musicians. I know one doesn’t preclude the other but you’re also working on two solo albums?
Nuno: (sucks in breath and then laughs) Yeah…
Mark: (laughs) It’s a lot of creativity bursting forth?
Nuno: I mean I’ve done solo albums before, like you’re alluding to when I do them I do them with a band. If I do anything I do it with a band. Not that there’s a lot of time right now to do that stuff, it’s kind of useless to talk about it at the moment, but I have a lot of material put aside. At the point that I posted that I was not sure the Extreme album was coming out.
Mark: I see…
Nuno: Yeah, look we’re doing a lot of stuff with the Extreme album at the minute. We just shot two more videos and I’m the one who directs them and edits them and colors them and does all that work so it takes up a lot of my time right now.
Mark: There’s been a bit of a mixed reaction to the album, I’m in the camp that thinks it just might be the best thing that you guys have put out.
Nuno: Mixed reaction? I don’t know who the fuck you’re talking to. I’m honestly in shock that there hasn’t been a mixed reaction at least here in the States, the UK and Europe, and the fanbase. The majority I see is mostly positive which is shocking and exciting and all that. But I don’t know maybe you have some really ‘boujee’ friends I don’t know?
Mark: (Laughs) By mixed reaction I meant that some people out there are like me and think it might just be the best Extreme record so far and others just love it. It’s all positive, just different levels of positivity.
Nuno: Oh wow. I jumped in too fast! (laughs)
Mark: That’s cool, I love the passion! I think for me personally I loved the rockers and that was immediate, but after a few spins it was some of the quieter moments that really captured my attention. Everyone of course loved the singles, but on first plat it was songs like ‘Other Side of the Rainbow’ that really grabbed me.
Nuno: I think you’re right in the sense that the thing about Extreme and every thing we’ve done from ‘Rainbow’ to ‘Rise’ or ‘More Than Words’ to ‘Get the Funk Out’ – you either get fans like myself who when listening to Queen I loved that they did the most abstract, obscure – you know ‘Lazing on a Sunday Afternoon’ on the same album as fucking ‘Death on Two Legs’ or ‘Bohemian Rhapsody’. Where other people would get offended “I don’t like that shit” they’re a ‘Rock guy’ or they love the beautiful stuff. It always shocks me when somebody says they’re a fan of the band then start listing all the stuff they donlt like – that doesn’t make you a fan of the band to me: that makes you a fan of a genre. You know what I mean?
Mark: I know exactly what you mean.
Nuno: It’s like when I listed to Radiohead I accept Radiohead for what they are, I wouldn’t even write half the stuff that they write but that’s not the point. Radiohead can release and album and I ca go “Do I even like this? This is so different from the last album” But you can’t throw it away you have to give it one, two, three, four listens – and after that I can’t stop listening to it for a year and a half! And that’s an album that I didn’t even think I liked! So I think a true fan gives it a shot and gives it a deep dive – if you respect the guys and you’ve been following them and you say you are a fan – you gotta go for the ride right Mark?
Mark: I’m with you on that.
Nuno: You gotta go for the ride and see what happens right? It doesn’t mean you like every song, but I think you’re right – a good band to me, a band that I like, you tend to have favourites at different times. Like you said you liked “Like a Rainbow” and it connects maybe because of where you are in your life, I don’t know what you’re listening to or not listening to, or what resonates with you. But for other people that might be something completely different that connects – some have said that “X Out” is the best song there, it’s the fucking craziest song on the album but if that’s their favourite “OK great”
Mark: I know exactly what you mean and some of these songs will stay forever too, whilst some will fade: I’m still of the opinion that “It’s” is one of the greatest songs ever written 33 years on.
Nuno: That’s the beauty of Rock and Roll Mark! It’s amazing and its beautiful how a song or a lyrics or a riff or a harmony resonates so much that you can take ownership and say “That’s mine, that’s my song”. And they’ll debate it with somebody else who connects with a different song – I’ve had people tell me that ‘Rainbow’ is one of the greatest Pop songs ever written! Others who don’t care for it that much, and that’s the beauty isn’t it? It’s art! You put yourself out there and you hold on! People are going to rip you apart and tell you how great you are in the same breath! I can’t even look at comments – when the album came out I couldn’t read anything about it because artists whether they want to say it or not is like this – we could be playing a stadium with 90,000 people and they could all be fucking singing your song and if there’s one guy in the third row going like this (Nuno folds his arms) the whole time – that will destroy you! And you’ll wonder ‘what did I do wrong? Whay can’t that guy like me?’ Not the 89,999 that love it! So you could read all the greatest comments in the world and it would just take one! So when ‘Rise’ came out my manager was like “Just read a few?” And so I just scrolled really fast because the second someone tells me how horrible I am I’m like (Puts on sad face) “Why am I so horrible?” But it was just amazing, so loving, and some were so passionate in the sense of “Thank you” – not “I like this song, but thank you for the Rock and Roll.” and ” Thank you for giving us an album I can listen to from top to bottom.” I loved that people were making comments about putting their headphones on and listening to it like an old school album, or play when they were driving. They didn’t have to love every song but from front to back it’s a fucking journey! And it was those comments about wanting to go back and travel that journey again, rather than just “I love you, you’re the greatest” that stuck with me. Those comments stuck with me more than comments like “Solo of the Century!” – first of all it’s not the greatest solo I’ve ever done, nor is it the best song we’ve ever done, but I think what we’re talking about is, and what I found out of reading all of the reactions and the comments is – to me I always ask why? It can’t just be the solo or this and that. So I tried to step back and it made me realise that of all the comments is that there’s been a starvation almost of that genre of that generation, of my generation whether it’s 90’s, 80’s of bands that give a fuck about putting time into making and album that has something to say. Not that there’s not great Rock bands out there – there’s everywhere and there are some great ones, but it’s more about that 1900’s feel – where it wasn’t just about the songs or the music or the guitar playing it was more about the mythology of Rock and Roll.
Mark: That’s the nail on the head right there!
Nuno: Seeing the video for ‘Rise’ was super important for us, I can’t tell you how much of a difference it made, sure its a great song, great guitar but in my eyes after what happened when the video came out – if that video didn’t come out I don’t know when people would listen to it? I don’t know when they would have got to stream it, instead people were like “Have you seen this?” meaning what? “Have you seen the band perform? Have you seen that they give a fuck by what they look like? Have you seen that there’s a solo but its in an arrangement with harmonies, and then there’s this and that…” Rock and Roll has always been very simple, Rock and Roll is all very Neanderthal right? We’ve been playing the same fucking chords and the same verse-chorus arrangement since the 50’s (laughs) Nothing really has changed in Pop or anything else, but what separates bands from each other and what elevates them is when it sounds simple but then you really hear it and it’s like a three and a half minutes song and you’re thinking “Why do I want to hear this again? What is it about this that is touching me?” And then you go back and you discover complexities, you discover layers of lyrics, harmonies, solos. Tings that when you go back you realise you didn’t hear the first time and that’s where I cam up with the word ‘simplexity’. Good Rock and Roll is ‘simplexity’. Meaning what? Well it could be AC/DC – how much more ‘In your face’ fucking three, four cords can you get? But there’s something so complex about it too in its limitations and its holes and its space. The intellectualism of leaving gaps in the most monstrous of songs – where you go to an arena and you think “I fucking get it!” They’re an arena band, they invented this shit! Where if you go and listen to Yes, who I also love – arena – not so much.
Mark: I think you’re so right, it is all of that, and so well put, and I think the video was so important because it got everyone talking abut it and sharing that, then to see the next one that came and then the next: that conversation was just growing!
Nuno: The videos were super important, but the songs have to be there. The videos would suck if the songs were dip! But when you see it, you smell it! If I did what the Record company wanted me to do initially – and it was smart what they wanted to do because everyone is doing it. Management said “Hey Nuno, give them a fucking teaser…” – everyone wants to be the first to see everything and do everything. “Give them a teaser in the studio…” like where I am now in my bedroom and you are at home, “…and play them the solo to ‘Rise’.” Just me – and it would have just been like (Nuno puts on a disinterested voice) “OK that’s Nuno playing the fucking guitar. He’s bending some notes and doing that percussive thig that he’s done in about six other songs in the last 35 years that everyone now thinks is innovative and has raised the bar somehow.” And I’ve been doing it in ‘Peacemaker Die’ and in ‘Hip Today’ and in different songs, it’s part of who I am. I love that people are excited about the ‘Rise’ solo and I love that they may find it inspiring, but I look at it as a blinding sucker punch! Where you’re just driving along and it hits you “Boom” and you’re like “What the fuck was that?” Why? Because it’s been a minute! Most of the guitar players that I love, and there’s some great guitar players out there, a lot, but how do we actually discover them? How do we actually listen to them? It’s not in a video, it’s listening to them right where we are now at home and they’re doing what I’ve done on ‘Rise’ and our jaws drop as guitarists and think “Wow that’s incredible!” and then we go on about our day. It was 30 seconds or a minute, but it was technically a guitar player blowing our minds. You see that in a song and you see the guitar player passionately playing it just like you hear it, just like he might have felt when he was doing it in the studio, now tat takes it to another dimension! And I don’t mean just me – I mean anybody. When we watched Jimmy Page with his guitar slung down in Maddison Square Garden playing ‘The Song Remains the Same’ that’s just like “Man! What the fuck!?” It’s different to just listening to it at home on the record player. The record player was enough, but when we saw it! Ad we saw how all in, and how devoted (it was) and where it came from! That’s a game-changer! I don’t give a fuck if you’re miming the damn fucking thing, it doesn’t matter, it means that you see the culture, you see the mythology. The mythology is what’s been missing for me! So when people saw that it was like “What the fuck?!” I had friends who are heroes of mine calling me and going “Dude that was mazing” and I’m like “Come on really? It’s not solo of the century” And Luke (Steve Lukather) said to me “Oh yeah? You wany to be humble? Let’s take it this way – say it wasn’t you and that song came out, say it was another band.” And he said to me when was the last time you called me or I called you or we called or texted each other and said “Have you heard this?”
Mark: (laughs)
Nuno: And I went “Oh fuck. Since 2000, we haven’t.” And he said well look at it this way, like it or not you guys did an album that people are asking “Have you heard this?” It’s as simple as that, it’s that excitement like when you call your brother and tell them “Did you check out this new Van Halen track?” It’s just shit that we did and like we said, it’s not rocket science. He said “Don’t get me wrong we all knew you could play! We’re not sat there all twisted thinking ‘Fuck where did Nuno come from?’ or where did Extreme come from! We knew you were a decent band and we knew you were a decent guitar player, but it’s been a minute.”
Mark: It’s has.
Nuno: “It’s been a long minute. Such a long tie since Extreme did anything and it blew me off the chair. Emotionally, excitement, the video, the performance – you guys have made us feel ‘Wow, that’s Rock and Roll’,” And that’s when I knew that it wasn’t just about me or just about the solo – that’s when I knew it was all about the bigger picture.
Mark: I think you’re right it’s about that complete Rock and Roll record, and Queen is the obvious example because a Queen album was always an experience and what you’ve given us with ‘Six’ is that same kind of experience with all the textures all the colours, it has that quirky stuff too…
Nuno: You listen to it a few times and you’re like the things that you hated are the things you end up loving! It forces you to change. I remember even with my own band, telling them I want to put ‘Beautiful Girls’ on there. And I’m like ‘That’s who we are’ – what the fuck do you think ‘More Than Words’ and ‘Whole Hearted’ were? What the fuck did they have to do with ‘Get the Funk Out’? What the fuck did ‘When I first kissed you’ have to do with anything? What the fuck did ‘Rock A Bye Bye’ off the first album have to do with anything? That’s who the fuck we are! We are the right and left turns – those are the bands that did that – the Zeppelin’s and the Queens and even the Van Halen’s with doing crazy little ‘Spanish Fly’! And you think ‘why’?! ‘What the fuck’!? But that’s all part of it, and that’s what keeps the listener driving! If it was just one path down the highway and seeing the same lines stretching out forever I’d be like “Turn this fucking thing off”.
Mark: You’re right. Talking of solos though I think y favourite on there was the one on ‘The Mask’ it just seemed perfect for the song. I love that.
Nuno: And those are the ones that the second somebody says that’s not Extreme I’m like “Yes!”.
Mark: (laughs)
Nuno: It is Extreme! The thing that pisses me off the most is when… Look, somebody can tell me they don’t like something, that they don’t like this or that song; or they don’t like you, or they don’t like my show, but when somebody tells me what Extreme is or isn’t. When they say “That’s not an Extreme album!” I think “Really? Is that so?” The guy who wrote every fucking tune and started it. You’re telling that guy what it is and what it isn’t! (laughs)
Mark: (laughs)
Mark: Has your process changed much over the years? I know technology has changed so much.
Nuno: Oh not at all. For me it’s always been, when we chose songs for the album and however we write them, it’s always the same – it starts with a guitar or a piano or a melody. It’s really quick, it needs to be really quick. If I don’t write that fucking song within 20 minutes, and hour or two hours, and when I say ‘the song’ I mean – what it means, the majority of it, what it’s about, the riffs: and of course you can go back. But if I’m labouring over something for fucking two or three days then I’m starting to think “This is crap” if I really have to work hard doing something for that long then maybe it’s not supposed to be that way. So all those things that really work – those things are like “Boom!” It just happens. ‘Hurricane’ it just happens.
Mark: it’s capturing that moment, grabbing that lightning down, that’s the magic!
Nuno: It is capturing that moment because the music really isn’t yours. You now, you’re kind of like a conduit – there’ no fucking way that I can claim what’s on this album. Or Freddy can claim what he did on those fucking albums – it comes from other places. It gets delivered. Was Freddy born with ‘Bohemian Rhapsody?’ (laughs) no! That doesn’t happen at birth I hate to fucking break it to everybody! People say “You were born with it” or “You’ve got a gift” Fuck you! A gift!? That was 17 hours in my bedroom playing guitar between a couple of masturbations a day… I was playing guitar all day! You think that’s a blessing?! (laughs)
Mark: It sounds like hard work (laughs).
Nuno: (laughs) I was, I picked up the guitar and I did it! But the music came from Queen, the music came from Chuck Berry, it came from The Beatles, it’s just all in there and it’s kind of like – you are what you eat! As long as you’re not trying to track it, it’s not like you’re thinking “I want to do ‘Beautiful Girls’ today” I wanna do this Reggae type thing… it’s not like that – you look at the guitar and you pick it up and you don’t know why! You just start playing that fucking thing and you start singing that melody and you don’t know why – it’s because The Beach Boys are in there and The Beatles are in there and… Pantera’s in there! People say “Man you came up with ‘Rise’ what a great marketing idea, it sounds modern and I think “Modern? You fucking kidding me? Modern?” I grew up on Metallica, I listened to Pantera, I fucking toured with Pantera – they don’t understand – that shit is in here. (Nuno motions to his head and his heart). Sometimes you’ll pick up a guitar and you’ll go (Nuno sings a monster riff) – you know it just happens! It might not be your genre – it might not be what people think you are, but really at the end of the day what are we? I don’t know? Look at that collection behind you – all those books? What are we?
Mark: We’re the sum of many things Nuno and i like to think that while that core stays largely the same we can change all the time.
Nuno: You’re right! You might be a Nirvana fan, or a Soundgarden fans? A Radiohead fan or a Jellyfish fan? Sometimes I’ll be writing something and I’ll be like “Holy fuck!” ‘Rise’ came out and I started getting offended by three or four comment that kept repeating themselves. “Guys are you getting Stone Temple Pilots vibes?”
Mark: (laughs)
Nuno: And they are one of my favourite bands of all time so I didn’t mind, but the comment was that it was like ‘taking from it’. And then it occurred to me when one guy put the title of a fucking song, and I was even more fumed, I was like “What the fuck! I don’t….” and then I went “Oh… My… God…” there’s a melody in a part of the verse that if I slow it down it’s exactly a Stone Temple Pilots verse. (Nuno sings the melody) but we’re doing it like a Punk Rock version with harmonies in a Queen way – but it came from that fucking song without a doubt! It’s in there! I mean I didn’t sit there and think “I want to write a Stone Temple Pilots verse!” but without a doubt if it fucking comes out of you that easy, yeah it’s a different tone, speed, texture, lyric and everything else but man it’s in there!
Mark: And that’s the difference for me, I speak to so many musicians who tell me they have songs that they couldn’t put on an album because “It doesn’t sound like us”. That’s what I love about Queen and Extreme – that never crosses your minds! There isn’t that filter, there isn’t that boundary.
Nuno: Because the best song wins. Period. Full stop. End of the fucking story. Every song that you hear on this album, and I don’t want to make it sound like it’s the new cure for cancer or something, but for us, as special as this album is and putting out music to the world to share with anyone who will listen. Every song on this album had three or four songs trying to take that song out. Just for that spot.
Mark: Tell me more. What’s the selection process?
Nuno: Like there we’re three ‘Rise’ type songs – heavy songs trying to fight for that spot. There were three ‘Small Town Beautiful’s’. There were three ‘Beautiful Girls’ obscure tracks that were even more obscure going “Hey I want to fucking be on there!” And people will go ‘but that’s my favourite’ or ‘this is my favourite’ – or whatever. And you know how the song fucking makes it on there? (laughs) It’s not the one that you want on there that makes it on the album, it’s the one that while we’re sitting in the room and we go “I want this one”, “I want this one” and we go “OK that’s great. Which one do you want to take off?”
Mark: Wow, that must have been so hard.
Nuno: The one that survives isn’t the one you want, it’s the one you can’t take off the fucking album! You want all the other ones on there but it comes down to “I want that one!”, “But you can’t take ‘Mask’ off!”, “But that’s what you want!” Something’s gotta go so you say finally “Fuck that’s gotta go!” And the ones that stay there are the ones that serve that purpose the best, and fits that slot. And that’s how it is – the album is curated like a live set! It’s like “Boom, boom. boom” ad then we have to bring it to ‘Rainbow’ with that right turn. Then let’s come back with ‘Mask’ and then it’s “Boom, boom, boom” again and then it’s ‘Save Me’ and then it’s time to fucking hit them with ‘Hurricane’ – we think of it that way – how would we want to listen to this album? Because it doesn’t make sense to go Rise’ into ‘Small Town’ into ‘Rebel’ into ‘Hurricane’. We like to think “How do we draw the fans in like a live show? How do we keep them interested?” To do that you have a certain specific tone – 12 songs with points where you cleanse the palate and then you have to come back in – what do you do? So we really are strict with that idea of bringing people along with us.
Mark: It makes a massive difference – I’ve listened to some great albums that have made little sense structurally.
Nuno: Right ! And it’s for them – it’s for whatever they want. I know what you mean – I listen to some records and think “Wow… wow that’s what you opened with? OK” And I guarantee that if they tried that song live they might not get the right reaction. It’s so funny I remember being on a Rianna tour once and you know she’s got the bombastic hits and all these anthems and I remember the setlist on this one tour that I did with her – there was a ballad, well not a ballad but it was really trippy and mellow – and the guys who were producing the show were like “Yeah you gotta come out and open with this” and of course the crowd was anticipating her coming out, and every night it happened, she was on her knees and it was this really religious sort of thing and so on. And the lights go down and the crowd are roaring, it’s the biggest roar you ever heard and then the song starts with this heartbeat!
Mark: (laughs)
Nuno: And the crowd just goes silent. And they just don’t know what to do. And we’re on stage feeling exactly what they are feeling. I’m sorry there are just some things… we’re just fucking cavemen and women (Laughs) We’re all alike in many ways, we’re very different and we’re very unique, but we all have so much more in common that we like to admit.
Mark: It would be like coming out with ‘More Than Words’ wouldn’t it?
Nuno: Exactly! (laughs) It could be your favourite song! It’s our biggest hit right? But the crowd would be like “Really guys? Come on!” we’d have to come out and sit down! (laughs)
Mark: (laughs)
Mark: The great news is that you’re coming down to see us with Living Colour as well. I’m chatting to Corey right after you which is always fun!
Nuno: Corey is so fucking good! What a singer, I was watching him last night, we played their hometown in Long Island – he’s just so fucking great – the whole band’s great and this is long overdue! They were part of that ‘land of the misfit toy’ bands that came out with us in that era that was Hair Metal and here we were doing fucking Funk and horns! Coming up with ‘More Than Words’ and doing crazy shit! Living Colour were doing their shit outside the box and so was Kings X. We’re kind of that brethren from another time. We’ve been talking about doing a tour together for decades, I can’t believe it’s the first time!
Mark: It was a great time for music in the 70’s and to me both Living Colour and Extreme had that essence, and we touched on that when we talked about Queen – bands that didn’t have a filter. There were very few bands in the late 80’s who could do that but you both did.
Nuno: You’re absolutely right I didn’t think of that. But you’re right. When I was young and coming out at that time I thought everybody did that! I just assumed. And then as I started meeting bands and meeting the producers behind those bands I realised a lot of it was very calculated. Like “Hey, come on, this is your market and this is your genre and you can’t do that, we do this then there’s a ballad.” I mean nobody wanted to put out ‘More Than Words’ – I was told by everyone “It is not a hit” and they were right! They were correct, it was not written to be a hit. (laughs) That’s why it was a hit!
Mark: (laughs)
Nuno: It connected emotionally and also no one was doing that. This was pre-MTV unplugged. People were like “where the fuck are we going to put this acoustic song, Everly Brothers on stools doing harmonies with an acoustic?” All the ballads were such big-produced fucking mental stuff! And we we’re like “Fuck you” when they wanted to do a remix “No, this is it – this is what it is, warts and all man.” We just felt like it was gonna connect and fought and fought and they tested it to markets and it just went through the roof on radio, even though Rock radio just didn’t know what the fuck to do with it! And there it was! And what you just said Mark is why. When you have your conviction and you go all in on something, and its emotional and it means something – it will resonate with people. Everything doesn’t have to be McDonalds and Happy Meals you know!
Mark: (laughs) Thank you so much ate, it’s been great to catch up. Always great to see you live, what a crazy good album you’re bringing for us and what a band you have along with you in Living Colour! I can’t wait!
Nuno: Thank you Mark, you come and say hi! We’ve got more videos coming too. My goal is to shoot a video for every song. We’ll put out one a month. We have ‘Mask’ coming next so check it out!
Mark: I think that is my favourite solo!
Nuno: (Laughs) Alright Brother thank you so much man.
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