Some things are worth waiting for. We originally spoke to Ron a few weeks before the release of ‘Rome Wasn’t Built in a Day’ the latest record by Babylon A.D. and the first to feature new rhythm section Dylan Soto and Craig Pepe. It’s an album that proves that sometimes you can recapture the magic of past glories and one to restore the faith of all those lovers of classic 80’s Hard Rock. There was a lot to talk about after last catching up with Ron in the early days of The Rockpit over a decade ago. Always remember to back up your computer hard drives as I thought this one was gone for good – over the next couple of weeks we will also be putting up the other two ‘lost’ interviews with Dylan and Derek…
Ron: Hey buddy how you doing?
Mark: Very good thanks mate, thanks so much for catching up. I just had to chat to you after hearing teh album, it’s wonderful.
Ron: I read the review and I thought ‘Holy crap!’ I’ve read a few reviews and there are some good ones, but there are just a couple who understand who we are at a deeper level, and you’re one of them. It’s hard to describe exactly what that is, but you dig into the songs a bit more. We always hated that we were thrown into that whole Glam Hair Band bullshit – we were just a Rock and Roll band but the marketing machine put us in all these magazines. But I’ve always known that we had more substance, some of our songwriting, our melodic sensibilities were just different – deeper, richer, you know what I mean? We lived in Hollywood when we were making the (first) record, so people thought we were a Hollywood band, but we were from the East Bay, the origins of Trash. I went to school with my buddy Cliff Burton. You’re always going to be influenced by the bands that you hang out with and go listen to, or those that you worship like Van Halen! But we never set out to copy anybody.
Mark: I think that’s always been the thing for me. The rest of the world got that there was a distinction between a lot of the bands out there, and living through that period the term ‘Hair Metal’ was never used. It was just a great time for Rock and Roll but there was plenty of variety musically. There were plenty of bands in Hollywood that sonically didn’t fit the term – bands like you guys, bands like Love/Hate, Junkyard. All great bands that just happened to get lumped together because they were in those magazines and all from a certain part of the world.
Ron: The end of the 80’s was crash and burn, and had that ‘flame out’ ethos. We’re in there just because of timing nothing more. We’re a little older than some of the guys in the scene but a little younger than the early 80’s bands that started it. Then ‘Whammo’ – Nirvana comes out! You could have ripped up our contract that very day and the reason that happened had nothing to do with the bands it was all the glossy, glitzy corporate bullshit that was happening. Right? The kids knew that it was bullshit, that there was something wrong with this reality.
Mark: The ‘party all night scene’ where bands just ripped off a look and a formulae but had nothing new to add. But some bands like you say just had more substance, like bands used to?
Ron: Led Zeppelin in the early seventies were ‘real’ and you can feel the bands that are ‘real’ there’s just something in their songs and the way they play life and the way they carry themselves. And we are still doing it Mark, we are still feeling it, I am just so happy with this record, I feel it’s as good if not better than our debut. We knew it was going to be good and I knew it would be when Derek called me a year and a half ago. We were writing and preparing for the Frontiers second album which didn’t come to fruition, so these songs were gong to be consigned to the dust bin of time right? And I couldn’t stomach that because not only is John back playing with his frigging amazing artistic sense, I love the guy, he’s my brother, but we had these songs that I didn’t want to slip away. So when Derek called I said ‘Right on’ we’re going to do this for ourselves and no one else. Because of that I knew it would be great not worrying about a Record Company or anything else just doing it for the love or music and the playing.
Mark: And it shows. I loved the last Frontiers record but I think this to me is something else, Derek always writes ‘gold’ and as you say John is back, and I also think that you have contributed to some of the best songs on there. You can never win a battle against nostalgia though, I mean we’ve had a few decades to live with those first two major label releases so it may take some time for some to see this one as right up there with those, but for me its right there. When I heard ‘Wrecking Machine’ for the first time, I knew we were in for a treat – that riff is just a monster.
Ron: Well the story behind that song is John wrote it and demoed it with Leonard Haze from Y&T. They had a guy who had a lot of money and wanted to be a Rock and Roll singer and paid for some production time and they recorded that riff – so its another that would have disappeared into the music bin of time (laughs) I’m not sure when he did it but Derek had a digital recorder that he gave to John and he just threw that one down. We all come up wit ideas: I have some that Derek will never hear, I have some that he hears but we don’t do anything, and then there’s the songs that make it to the finish line right? So John recorded that on his machine, didn’t say a word about it, gave the machine back to Derek, who is getting ready to wipe the hard drive and he starts playing it. “What the fuck is this?” so he calls John and says, “John what is this man?” And that was the beginning of that song. And when we were rehearsing it and playing it we knew it was a rocking tune. But the first time I heard Derek’s first mix in the studio I knew it was a great Rock song: it just has all the pieces! I’ll tell you one thing about that – when I first heard it I thought – “My God fucking guitars – there must be ten of them!” when we recorded the first album I’d stack up versions of two on the left, two on the right, maybe same guitar, maybe different guitar, or different amps, to give it a ‘thickness’ right? But on that song, I can’t believe it. it’s one guitar on the left – me, and one guitar on the right – John. The guitar sounds aren’t drastically different, a Van Halenish thick distorted guitar, so they’re not drastically different but the way they come together when Derek pans full left, full right – I’m blown away! My point overall is that song came out way better than I thought – I knew it was a good song but when I heard Derek’s mix I knew it was one of the best songs we’d ever recorded. I love that song,
Mark: I love the dynamics on it and the space it has, and the fact that it’s not just a simple verse-chorus-verse-chorus. I think that you’re right though one of the things I love most about the album is the guitars. There’s a meatiness to them and to end with a track like ‘Super Beast’ is such absolute fun!
Ron: (Laughs) I’m so glad that made the record as that’s one of my riffs. The best riffs that I’ve ever come up with have been by complete accident. ‘Bang Go The Bells’ I was practicing in Hollywood and Derek heard it. I don’t sit down and say “I’m Gonna Come Up With a Riff” they just happen by accident practicing. So ‘Super Beast’ was with preparation for the Frontiers Record – I was just fucking around at practice and then John put a harmony on it – and I was thinking – Wow! That’s like Pat Travers right? So I submitted it to Derek, and not everything makes it to the finish line but I thought that could be a great instrumental that we could make really interesting. I was so happy with those guitar tones, Derek did a fantastic job. I think with age you get that, back when I was a kid I think I had pretty good tone but when you’re young and in the studio that tone is formulated by engineers and producers, They throw you a Marshall and say “Hey kid, play it through this one” and I may have not liked it particularly, but hey am I gonna argue with Tom Werman?
Mark: (Laughs) Exactly. So let’s talk about that sound – how do you get it?
Ron: Well now I have 100% control over my guitars, my pickups, my amps, how we mic them – the complete chain – I now have control over it and Derek tells me he does very little to it, he rolls off some of the very low end and some of the top end but that’s about all. He does a great job mixing it all. But the guitars not just the hard sounds, we got to experiment – like ‘Crashed Into The Sun’, I’ve always loved injecting clean guitar at the front with a Strat type pickup, Gillmore type sounds, and my guitars are always wired, whether it’s a humbucker or not, to have a single coil sound up front that I can flip to, and then a regular heavy humbucker in the back – like ‘Shot O’ Love’ where I can get that ‘twangy’ clean sound. So that’s what I’m using on ‘Crashed Into The Sun’, that’s the clean sound. But we got to play around with many more effects, delays, phasers and phalangers! (Laughs) Who uses a phalanger anymore! I’ve seen guys with pedal boards – 50 little mini-boxes, every effect you can lay your hands on – and that’s awesome, I think its fantastic – they’re going old school. I have boxes that I bought back in the day for 50 bucks or whatever that are now… I have an MXR analogue phalanger – Edward Van Halen, that you plug into an outlet that is priceless. These analogue devices are ‘through the roof’, it’s nostalgia, but its also wanting to capture that sound because everything is digital now. Everything. Now when I record demos I have this little practice amp here that is digital. When I recorded Syrym I used all plug-ins. When I do Babylon or do projects I have a 50 Watt Plexi Marshall that is gold to me. I had it ‘modded’ and it’s the best amp I have ever used, and that’s the magic. But it’s how it comes off on the record, just because you have a tube amp doesn’t mean shit, you gotta now how to set the volumes, the compression all of those things to make it sound good.
Mark: ‘Crashed Into The Sun’ and ‘Looking For a Heartbeat’ I feel are your riffs, I think over the years I’ve started to pick your sound.
Ron: That’s correct and that’s pretty cool I appreciate that! (Laughs)
Mark: How old is ‘Looking For a Heartbeat’?
Ron: Again I think it came after we did the first Frontiers we got out and went to play some Festivals in England and Germany and I think it was in that window that we got to write some new songs. We were playing it live actually, that’s the only song of these songs that people had heard. And it made it to teh finish line because people loved it. So that’s one of the earlier riffs (Ron sings it) I think Van Halen, Randy Rhoads, Martini, Lynch, all my heroes but Michael Schenker is god! (Laughs) What I produce tends to be more melodic, even though I like heavy grime and shit just like the next guy, but I like to inject clean things – like arpeggio’s and shit like that. I think that’s probably because of a number of things – I started playing trumpet in 6th grade and everyone on my Dad’s side is musician and I started taking Jazz guitar lessons when I was 13 – and my teacher would not teach me any Rock songs. Even though I wanted to learn Led Zeppelin they would let me, so the Jazz influence meshed with hard rock I think that’s where it comes from.
Mark: One of the things of course that is different on the album is a change in personnel – a couple of members changed – Robb and Jamey both left the band and were replaced by Craig and Dylan, who I’ll be chatting to later. I think they both have done a great job and stylistically they are very different to their predecessors: especially Dylan’s drums. Was that a conscious thing or just the natural style that they came to teh band with?
Ron: Well let me rewind a little bit. The guys that have played in this band over the years are like brothers – we love each other and we would do anything for each other. But people come and go, I came and went a couple of times just because of life events. What happened with Dylan and Craig is that I bought a house out in Central California and at that point Babylon was still playing around and I would always do that, but I was gonna hang up the cleats a little bit, but within a week my girlfriend came to me and said “You know what, I work with this girl and her husband is a bass player and he’s in a band and they need a guitar player.” And I was thinking “They keep pulling me back in!” (Laughs)
Mark: (Laughs)
Ron: So I went and jammed with these guys – it was a more of a heavy Blues thing. And I dug it, I jammed with them and we played some gigs, did a demo that I mixed and we had a good time. And in that band there was a drummer change, great guys, great drummer but on a Sunday night when we were making a demo we went to this club down in Modesto . It’s a Sunday night and I look over and there’s this band playing, a younger band, great band and I look at this drummer and I think “That guy’s going to be famous” because not only does he have great technical ability, he just has this great energy. I knew he was great but I had no idea I’d be playing with him. But when we did have that drummer change he was right there in the back of my mind, so I DM’d him and we set up a phone call. And when I made that call he told me he was driving in his car and he had to pull over because his Mom used to play our stuff in her car! So he knew us, he’s in his early 20’s and he knew or stuff! He was totally excited! So that’s how that came about. He’s a fantastic guy and a fantastic drummer and I’m so happy that he’s with us. He’s absolutely made a difference. And Craig, he has a ton of experience, a great tone, a great player. And there’s no doubt that those guys, while the core of the band is still there, and John is OG: he and Jamey created the band and a lot of people don’t now that, so it’s me Derek and John with this new incredible rhythm section. And I think that has taken our songs and this band to another level.
Mark: I think that’s the difference here and the difference between this and the last record. I must admit it’s not often that I take notice of the drums, the drums and bass are the bedrock of the sound, but it’s the guitars that catch me and they’re the strs here and that’s where the trademark sound comes from. But saying that the drums right away and the bass in ‘Wrecking Machine’ really make you sit up and take notice – they’re so different – it’s reinvigorating. It’s a diverse record too so you have the variety from the downcast ballads to the real riff rockers. Lyrically I love it, Derek’s done a great job.
Ron: Well I can’t speak for Derek but I think lyrically you can hear the life experience. ‘Pain’ is bout a friend of ours that is suffering from cancer now, my ex-wife died from cancer and I think as you get older those life experiences are injected into the things you write. So “Love is Hell’ is about relationships. One of my favourites is ‘I Will Never Break Again’ – the first time I heard that I knew it would be on the record. There’s a good story behind that too! When I heard the guitar part it was so rich it was emotional, John was at a party, it’s two in the morning, John is jamming and playing that, Jamey recorded it but the next day nobody remembered it until Jamey played the recording and said “John do you remember doing this?” and John was “Hell no!” (Laughs)
Mark: (Laughs)
Ron: Derek is singing fantastic don’t you think? He’s gotten better with age man! He’s hitting notes that maybe he didn’t hot before. Again, experience, wisdom, age – those things all mean something.
Mark: There are few singers who get better with age and I think I named a few in the review, but Derek is right up there. I’ve enjoyed talking to him over the years and every time he surprises me.
Ron: When we caught up on the Monsters of Rock Cruise it was great to see all of the bands, but maybe three in ten the singers were as god as I remembered them, but the rest were struggling to various degrees. I have sympathy for them, I would bever trash anyone because we all want to keep playing and maybe one day my fingers will go, and that’s just a fact of life, but Derek is going the other way! He’s sounding even better!
Mark: You’ve got some great shows coming up too with Monsters on The Mountain and the Whisky show too! They’ll be great.
Ron: really good and shows are coming in even before the release pf the record. The calls are coming and I feel as far as gigs and the success of this thing, whilst we have no delusions of grandeur, I feel that something good is going to happen. Right back when we started out on these songs I felt that Derek knew how good they were. I felt great when he first called me, great at the mix of ‘Wrecking Machine’ and after all the years of us playing gigs and humping gear, I feel that something good is coming. We got three dates in Texas, I want to get back to Europe, I’d love to play Japan, we almost got to Japan with Alice Cooper but the night before we were going to split it got canceled. So that one sits in my craw I have to tell you.
Mark: And of course Australia.
Ron: Without a doubt. We’d love to come see you, that would be on my bucket list. How often do you get back?
Mark: Not as often as I’d like, not since Covid. Thank you so much for takin the time today Ron, we’ll not leave it as long next time.
Ron: Thank you buddy, talk soon.
LOOK OUT FOR INTERVIEWS WITH DEREK and DYLAN IN THE COMING DAYS
